Torium 16 - VERY hard to turn - Hardly any freespool

[Feel_theBITE]

Gentlemen,

I upgraded my Torium 16 with the Spring and Pawl, and while am at it, replaced the drags with Smoooth drag. Almost lost the Click Spring ... good thing I read many tips on this site. So, I was feeling very accomplished that I bragged about it to my fishing buddy/neighbor.

And he had purchased a used Torium 16 from someone on the web. Not sure if it was Craiglist or Bloody decks. He recently used it on a fishing trip, and he mentioned that it needed new drags because he couldn't stop a 5 lbs bonito on 30 lbs test, no matter he hammered down on the drag.

Long story short, he asked me to change the drags. Should be simple. When I opened it...there was no Click Spring. And when I checked the drags, it was missing the drag on the main gear, so it was just metal to metal at that time. When I got the carbontex drags .. i started to remove  the old grease around the housing. Removed the OLD drags, again worth mentioning, the drag on the main gear was missing, so I placed the new one on the main drag with a tiny bit of Cal's grease. And proceeded to complete the additions.

Closed the housing, and added the handle ..and all of a sudden, it became very hard to turn the handle, and there is hardly any free spool. No matter how many times I re-seat the drags and the washers ... same result.

So here I am seeking for any solutions, if anyone had encountered this issue, and if the Click Spring is really relevant to the problem.

Thank you in advance.

[alantani]

we will have to go stepwise on this. 

first, gut the reel, remove the gears and reassemble just the frame, spool and side plates, properly shim the spool to zero load, zero freeplay, spin the spool and see if it spins with the pinion gear in place.  if it fails here, the problem is the bearings, the side plate or the frame.

second, add just the pinion gear, yoke, jack and main gear. if it bogs down here, the problem is the pinion gear.  it may have to be cleaned out. 

it should be one of these two things. 

[Fish-aholic]

Another step to check for binding issues is the anti reverse pawls retaining plate. If it has been installed upside down, the main gear can bind against the plate. The tell tale sign for this occurrence is when increasing drag, the binding becomes greater.

[Feel_theBITE]

we will have to go stepwise on this. 

first, gut the reel, remove the gears and reassemble just the frame, spool and side plates, properly shim the spool to zero load, zero freeplay, spin the spool and see if it spins with the pinion gear in place.  if it fails here, the problem is the bearings, the side plate or the frame.

second, add just the pinion gear, yoke, jack and main gear. if it bogs down here, the problem is the pinion gear.  it may have to be cleaned out. 

it should be one of these two things. 

I tried to do multi quotes, but was only able to capture one.

I did removed the gears, and re-assembled .. and they turn freely just using the gears .. without the housing or frame.

The binding happens when I put in the housing.

There were plenty of grease on the anti-reverse bearing which i cleaned out.

It seems to me that there is something that is pinching the drags/washers or the spools itself.

[alantani]

there is a spool tension cap.  is that too tight?

[Feel_theBITE]

there is a spool tension cap.  is that too tight?

I investigated it some more ... and found that the OLD drag washer was still somewhat "welded" into the main gear. Looked for ways to take it out. It was so burned out, it became part of the gear. I was able to pry it out finally, and replaced it with the new one..and that is what the problem was....

Thank you, gentlemen, for staying with me. So the Click spring has no relevance at all ?

[alantani]

none.  glad it worked out!

[handi2]

there is a spool tension cap.  is that too tight?

I investigated it some more ... and found that the OLD drag washer was still somewhat "welded" into the main gear. Looked for ways to take it out. It was so burned out, it became part of the gear. I was able to pry it out finally, and replaced it with the new one..and that is what the problem was....

Thank you, gentlemen, for staying with me. So the Click spring has no relevance at all ?

The reel will work fine without the click spring. It's purpose is to add a click when adjusting the drag star. If you want one, and the spring, just PM me.

Those original drag sure are a mess to work with.

[Fish-aholic]

When working on the first generation Shimano Trinidad/Torium reels with dartanium drag washers as stock, my preference is to remove the main gear complete with the cluster of drag washers from the gear sleeve/drive shaft in one go, though, I separate the ratchet plate first so not to damage the AR pawl.

With the main gear free of the gear sleeve, I quickly turn it upside down on to my work area and simply ease out the cluster of drag washers via the two recesses which accommodate the eared metal drag washer. This method is a sure way to remove all drag washers from inside the main gear and not leave one behind to be troubled by height issues as you had experienced. Just my way of doing things that might benefit you/others in future. 

A clicking star drag is a feature not a necessity. It's a feature I quite like.

[Feel_theBITE]

When working on the first generation Shimano Trinidad/Torium reels with dartanium drag washers as stock, my preference is to remove the main gear complete with the cluster of drag washers from the gear sleeve/drive shaft in one go, though, I separate the ratchet plate first so not to damage the AR pawl.

With the main gear free of the gear sleeve, I quickly turn it upside down on to my work area and simply ease out the cluster of drag washers via the two recesses which accommodate the eared metal drag washer. This method is a sure way to remove all drag washers from inside the main gear and not leave one behind to be troubled by height issues as you had experienced. Just my way of doing things that might benefit you/others in future. 

A clicking star drag is a feature not a necessity. It's a feature I quite like.

Thank you for the great tip, again.

I did try to use the two recesses to remove that burned out drag washer and it would not budge. I had to pop it out from the two holes that are under the main gear. Never knew there were two holes in that main gear. I recommended to him that we should also replace the pawl ..but he declined. I thought it was a great upgrade.

Yes I also like the clicking feature... I don't know why. Something about it make it sound like it's a fishing reel 

I will look through my old reels to see if I can improve them.. and will definitely be back.

Catala 200 Shimano...bought it late 90's.

It's the smallest shimano triton ? speedmasters with the star drag that has a spring in it... 

Then finally a Penn 500 converted to 99 with Accuplates and Newell gears. I stripped the screw that holds the handle in place. I need to find one of those. Penn wanted to charge me an extravagant amount of money for shipping the little piece. Extravagant because I am on a fixed retired income 

Great site...by the way. Thank you.