Help me I.D. this reel

[Penn Chronology]

Having trouble putting a maker to this old knuckle buster

Me too!. The frame looks Pflueger, the stand does not, the thumb stall does not and the handle does not. The stand on a Pflueger was not solid like this one is, but with the size variation and production era of the Avalon, the stand could be correct, the thumb stall is not a Pflueger. I have seen these sewn thumb stalls before; but, I cannot recall exactly which maker does them in this manner. The handle is a crap shoot; but since you said the handle nut is missing, any square broached handle could fit this reel.

So, I am still not 100%, but, I think it is a Avalon.

If I find something 100% conclusive, I will post it.

[Penn Chronology]

Here's another piece of the puzzle off the internet; but, it is not helping. It seems the Avalon could have come directly from Pflueger with the bells and whistles.



Here you can just about see the stand cut outs and the optional shadow of the thumb stall. The head plate had the Williams handle and external anti-reverse installed.

Looking at your reel I see some tells. There are four screws on the head plate bridge mount area. I believe the screw that would be removed to install the external anti-reverse has been messed with on your reel and since the handle is wrong, possibly the original Williams drag and anti-reverse was removed from your reel and replaced with a screw and improper handle........................Maybe

[TEAMFISH]

Having trouble putting a maker to this old knuckle buster

Me too!. The frame looks Pflueger, the stand does not, the thumb stall does not and the handle does not. The stand on a Pflueger was not solid like this one is, but with the size variation and production era of the Avalon, the stand could be correct, the thumb stall is not a Pflueger. I have seen these sewn thumb stalls before; but, I cannot recall exactly which maker does them in this manner. The handle is a crap shoot; but since you said the handle nut is missing, any square broached handle could fit this reel.

So, I am still not 100%, but, I think it is a Avalon.

If I find something 100% conclusive, I will post it.

Appreciate all the help so far. So you think this reel has been "picked at" one time in it's life? I honestly wouldn't know, a friend that I build reels for gave it to me because he knows I like the old school stuff but I myself can't make a 100% call, to many variances.

[Penn Chronology]

Appreciate all the help so far. So you think this reel has been "picked at" one time in it's life? I honestly wouldn't know, a friend that I build reels for gave it to me because he knows I like the old school stuff but I myself can't make a 100% call, to many variances

I will try a few other avenues. So far I am not 100% on its origins. Sometimes these old reels are so obscure that ID's are impossible. This one is not, the solution is just out of reach. I will post it on another website and see what pops up.

[Penn Chronology]

OK, we are getting some solid answers. This reel is a Pflueger, here are some response from the ORCA specialists;

Mike, it's an early Pflueger that precedes the salt water Avalon and Sea King models that look very similar. Those reels do have the bulldog medallion like kingfisher noted but the early reels like this one do not. The 1906-07 catalog mentions that the metal in the laminated plates is aluminum. The other dead giveaway that says Pflueger is in the last photo. The tab cut onto the metal holding the leather thumber and the notched post both create the spring acting thumber that Pflueger sold with those earlier reels and the later mentioned above. Handles and feet seem to vary over the years. The post might not be fastened with the notch in the right orientation as the thumber is supposed to be held just away from the spool. When depressed, it's supposed to spring back off of the spool.

mike, here's a pic from a 1904/5 Pflueger catalogue. Unfortunately, the writing is never as clear as shown in the cat and usually will just have "tuna" or Tarpon above the handle, stamped in the faceplate. As Brian indicated, you need to hold it at an angle in good light and squint real hard through one eye...if you can do this on your head, that often helps ...very faint in that hard rubber!

So, we seem to all agree it is an early Pflueger. pre-Avalon. There may be some very faint markings on the head plate which you may need to stand on your head in just the right light to see. I am trying here.......................................

[Tightlines667]

Yep.. looks like anew early 20th century tuna reel to me.  Glad I didn'the chime in on this one.. I was thinking Monty, but what do I know?  If you get that reel in hand, ad are able to, take a picture of the top of the headplate wetted down with a bit of water, or polishing compound.. or maybe it needs to be examined under a microscope to see the origionsl/heavily worn markings?  Also check the handle to see if it has that ratchet mech on the arm and handle retaining nut (pictured in the last ad Mike shared).  Nothing like a great mystery.

[Penn Chronology]

THE BEAT GOES ON!

So many times, when trying to accurately document a vintage reel, especially one this old, clues are needed from a number of sources. I have some pictures from a listed on EBay reel that answers more of our questions. It is a Pflueger Sea King with a exchanged tail plate. I believe this reel to be early 20th Century, approximate 1910 to 1915.


This pic shows us what the handle on your reel probably should look like in its original installation. The reel has an ID plate, making it somewhat later model than the one we are investigating here, also removing all doubt as to what it is. As we go through the photos, noticing the rear cross bar is relevant to the ID of the vintage and Pflueger origins. There is a notch in the rear cross bar, as brought up by the first ORCA observer. That notch is a Pflueger exclusive, it is there to provide a spring location for the early thumb stalls that were spring loaded to move away from the line when thumb pressure was removed from the stall. That is why the early thumb stalls look different, because they were different....<:O)


Here it is easy to see the tail plate is totally wrong for the reel; but, the era is close. The clicker button style is similar to our reel.


This photo would be pretty much the same as the reel in question except for the improper tail plate. Notice, you can still see the notch in the rear cross bar where the thumb stall spring would ride.


Here is the correct Pflueger stand.

Appreciate all the help so far. So you think this reel has been "picked at" one time in it's life? I honestly wouldn't know, a friend that I build reels for gave it to me because he knows I like the old school stuff but I myself can't make a 100% call, to many variances.

Putting this reel with your reel and bringing in all the other clues I think gives us a good idea of the origins of your reel. Very early, 20th Century Pflueger. Carefully cleaning the reel with soap and water to start with and examining under a good light might show up some kind of old stamping or engraving; but even if not, I think we are much closer to what it is than we were before.

[TEAMFISH]

Everyone has been so helpful, thank you. I did carefully clean the reel with mild soap and water. The only new thing I found was the number "27" hand engraved on the insides of both side plates. Not sure what it means, maybe an assembler I.D. of sort. As far as any external marking, I found nothing. I have some pretty powerful magnification tools and saw nothing.
So what I have is a 100+ year old Pflueger reel, wow!
Any idea's of it's collectible worth?

[Penn Chronology]

Everyone has been so helpful, thank you. I did carefully clean the reel with mild soap and water. The only new thing I found was the number "27" hand engraved on the insides of both side plates. Not sure what it means, maybe an assembler I.D. of sort. As far as any external marking, I found nothing. I have some pretty powerful magnification tools and saw nothing.
So what I have is a 100+ year old Pflueger reel, wow!
Any idea's of it's collectible worth?

The number you see is an assembly number. It is how the old reels were built. Each part was numbered to fit a particular reel. Parts were fitted back then and not really interchangeable without being fitted again.

As far as value goes. I would pay $50.00 for your reel plus shipping. Maybe you could do better if you put it on EBay and used all the information we have gathered in your description.

[Tightlines667]

I would pay $50.50

[swill88]

will you take $49.99?

[Penn Chronology]

First the price went up, then it went down. I think you better put it on EBay

[TEAMFISH]

Not for sale,adding it to my collection. 

[Penn Chronology]

That's what I like. That is exactly what I would have said. Now you can turn all this info into a story for your collection.

Perfect

[TEAMFISH]

That's what I like. That is exactly what I would have said. Now you can turn all this info into a story for your collection.

Perfect

Thanks again, very much appreciated