Help with Penn senators drag rebuild

[cbar45]

Chad.

Thank you for that info. So you are confident that a single thick keyed washer is enough to keep the eared washer high enough in the stack??? It looked really close hence why I added the second thin one with the first thick keyed. That is the only different between how I have it and you posted.

I also do have a spring washer under star. Reels been in the family since the 80s but obviously someone through a washer in the wrong spot. Is it a spring washer that goes between star and handle or just regular washer? Now maybe I am going nuts but do you have to crank the drag as tight as possible to expect 20lbs or should you being able to get 20 or close to without really cranking hard. I am having a tough time testing this drag as I get very inconsistent reads. Maybe not pulling the scale consistent enough.

Maybe I'm going nuts trying to see "20". I don't need 20 on a 113 I would just like to have 15 without turning the start almost all the way.

I will keep playing with it and try to get it better. This is the warmup for the reels I actually care for more at the time.

Ps. My 114h that are untouched so far are getting about 22-25 fully cranked down. 15lbs about a quarter turn out. The drags are original and I know should be changed, I just don't want the same issue when these reels are still getting enough drag for what I need them for.

Thanks all. It's something to pass the time until spring if nothing else

There should be a thin wavy spring washer AFTER the star, but nothing before it.

i.e. The star should rest directly on the "top hat" washer that goes above the drag stack.

I bet your drag numbers will improve if you removed that wavy spring washer and either place it after the star, or leave it out altogether.

The wavy washer after the star acts more like a spacer than anything else; I have seen it replaced with a regular stainless or chrome plated washer with no ill effects.

Regarding the height of the first eared washer, it all depends on the thickness of your drag washers and how far down the slots are milled in your particular main gear.

I have tested the stack shown with the single thicker keyed washer at the bottom to pull just over 20 lbs. at top spool--on all my 113-H's--with the star tightened as much as possible using only one hand.

So yes, I'm confident that all ten drag washers are engaging in my reels, but others may find it necessary to add an extra soft (or keyed) washer on the bottom in order for the 5-stack to work. As long as the top eared washer sits inside the main gear, you should be good.

Chad

[Alto Mare]

I would not get rid of that spring washer (wavy washer ) sitting under the star.
The purpose for that washer is to keep the star from backing out on its own, especially on a plate that uses a top hat.
It will also help with applying drag gradually.
The wavy washer is not just a spacer.
As Chad has mentioned, you could add or deduct washers on top of the gear, any washer used above the last keyed washer on the stack is only a spacer.
You could use 2 metal washers, or two carbon fiber washer together, as long as the last washer is metal.
You should be able to get to 20-22# with the star cranked down with no problems, but the reel won't feel smooth at max.
If you're looking for a little more drag or looking to have it silky smooth at 20#, we have kits available that will get you there.
Most of our drag upgrades are done so we could get to the max  with smoothness and  do gain some additional numbers as we do.

Sal

[cbar45]

I would not get rid of that spring washer (wavy washer ) sitting under the star.
The purpose for that washer is to keep the star from backing out on its own, especially on a plate that uses a top hat.
It will also help with applying drag gradually.
The wavy washer is not just a spacer.
As Chad has mentioned, you could add or deduct washers on top of the gear, any washer used above the last keyed washer on the stack is only a spacer.
You could use 2 metal washers, or two carbon fiber washer together, as long as the last washer is metal.
You should be able to get to 20-22# with the star cranked down with no problems, but the reel won't feel smooth at max.
If you're looking for a little more drag or looking to have it silky smooth at 20#, we have kits available that will get you there.
Most of our drag upgrades are done so we could get to the max  with smoothness and  do gain some additional numbers as we do.


Sal

Hi Sal,

I was referring to the thin wavy washer placed AFTER the star (and before the handle) as being a spacer, as it has no effect on drag pressure, nor does it help to keep the star from backing out.

I believe the wavy washer BEFORE the star is an addition seen on newer 113H's for the reasons you mention, while older reels with outside-access drags came only with a "top hat" collar/cap, (key #136)--on top of which the star is directly placed. At least that is how my 113H was when I bought it. The star has never backed off on me using the older setup, though I've heard of it happening before.

The reason I suggested for him to test the drag without the wavy spring washer before the star, is because on his reel, it appears to be something that was either added by someone after manufacture--or rather is actually just Penn's wavy spring washer originally found after the star.

If indeed someone added that wavy spring washer (before the star), it needs to be of a certain thickness in order to work. If that spring washer is too thick, it can make it extremely difficult to fully tighten down the star--resulting in lower-than-usual drag numbers as described at the beginning of this thread.

Chad

[Alto Mare]

I would not get rid of that spring washer (wavy washer ) sitting under the star.
The purpose for that washer is to keep the star from backing out on its own, especially on a plate that uses a top hat.
It will also help with applying drag gradually.
The wavy washer is not just a spacer.
As Chad has mentioned, you could add or deduct washers on top of the gear, any washer used above the last keyed washer on the stack is only a spacer.
You could use 2 metal washers, or two carbon fiber washer together, as long as the last washer is metal.
You should be able to get to 20-22# with the star cranked down with no problems, but the reel won't feel smooth at max.
If you're looking for a little more drag or looking to have it silky smooth at 20#, we have kits available that will get you there.
Most of our drag upgrades are done so we could get to the max  with smoothness and  do gain some additional numbers as we do.


Sal

Hi Sal,

I was referring to the thin wavy washer placed AFTER the star (and before the handle) as being a spacer, as it has no effect on drag pressure, nor does it help to keep the star from backing out.

I believe the wavy washer BEFORE the star is an addition seen on newer 113H's for the reasons you mention, while older reels with outside-access drags came only with a "top hat" collar/cap, (key #136)--on top of which the star is directly placed. At least that is how my 113H was when I bought it. The star has never backed off on me using the older setup, though I've heard of it happening before.

The reason I suggested for him to test the drag without the wavy spring washer before the star, is because on his reel, it appears to be something that was either added by someone after manufacture--or rather is actually just Penn's wavy spring washer originally found after the star.

If indeed someone added that wavy spring washer (before the star), it needs to be of a certain thickness in order to work. If that spring washer is too thick, it can make it extremely difficult to fully tighten down the star--resulting in lower-than-usual drag numbers as described at the beginning of this thread.

Chad

Chad, you are absolutely correct, I thought you meant the tension spring that sits under the star.
I will now keep my mouth shot...you're doing good.

Sal

[cbar45]

Actually Sal, re-reading what I wrote, I can see how it could have easily been misunderstood..

Your post has value in that you brought up the function of the wavy spring washer--something that others may not have known.

Chad