Post-war pre-1950 Senator 115 9/0

[sdlehr]

Picked up my largest reel to date, an immediate post-war Senator 9/0 from the big auction site in the cloud.... it arrived with a broken torpedo handle; I've started another thread and located a replacement; it looked like it was going to clean up really nicely



I thought the spool looked a little different; I assumed that this spool had been cared for differently in the past than had the others I had worked on.... here's how it started out



I did the usual clean-up and it turned out OK, but the spool isn't shining up like I expected it would; I think it's nickel-plated and not chrome. And I'm quite certain this arbor has never seen chrome. Here are a few views;








So my question in its simplest form is, did Penn put nickel-plated spools on the early post-war 9/0's? Because if they did not I don't know what I've got here.... I'll post up more pics when I get a decent handle to put on this.

Thanks.

Sid

[Tightlines667]

Sal,
You will note that the handle I sent you has some hairline cracks in it as well.  The resin from this timeframe mat have been a bit more brittle.  Does the spool arbor have a drilled hole, or a post?  I believe the postwar, 9/0 3 piece spools went from a drilled, to a narrow spindle posted, then a wider spindle posted.  The harness lugs also changed, from thin D shaped holes to thicker O shaped holes during this timeframe.  The earlier Senators had more durable plating due to German silver being used as a base metal, while the later ones saw an improvement in plating technique.. so there was a period where the plating was not as good.  I am shooting from the hip on this stuff and may be a bit off.  Ted, Ray, or Mike may be able to fill in the blanks here.  The reel appears to be correct to me, and the handle I sent you should be a good match.  A look inside may also help to narrow the production era a bit.  Does your reel have the externally accessable gears, and is the maingear steel, and off the taller straight-cut variety?  When disassembling, be careful of the fragile undersleave leather washer, and try not to damage any of te screw heads.  Hope I didn'the muddy the waters.

[Superhook]

http://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18647

Here is some talk about the same spools on ORCA only a month ago

[sdlehr]

Thanks, Ray. I've messaged Brian and asked him to stop by.

Sid

[sdlehr]

The resin from this timeframe mat have been a bit more brittle.  Does the spool arbor have a drilled hole, or a post?  

Post

The harness lugs also changed, from thin D shaped holes to thicker O shaped holes during this timeframe.  

This one has the thicker, O-shaped...

A look inside may also help to narrow the production era a bit.  Does your reel have the externally accessable gears, and is the maingear steel, and off the taller straight-cut variety?  When disassembling, be careful of the fragile undersleave leather washer, and try not to damage any of te screw heads.  

Yes, externally-accessible gears, steel main gear with the 3-stack of asbestos ~3mm-thick drag washers. There was no under gear washer (maybe someone already killed it?). I've never damaged a screw head in my life   I have quite a variety of screwdriver heads of the Winchester variety, and per ORCA protocol I let some penetrating oil soak on each screw thread for a few hours before loosening. Another thing I learned in the ORCA book is to loosen all the screw heads first before you remove any screws, lest somehow the plate be damaged by being too loose when trying to remove a stubborn screw. I guess I can imagine that actually happening....

Looking forward to seeing what Brian has to say about these spools. It appears there are a few around.

Sid

[sdlehr]

Another interesting characteristic of this spool is that one of the flanges is loose. It rotates in place, but rubs on the spindle. I think it's a spool that would blow up the next time mono was wound on it with any tension. I'm looking for a front rod harness, I'm going to try to get some of the staining out of the surface of the spool (another ORCA trick, I'll let you know if it works). Wish me luck.

Sid

[Penn Chronology]

Sid, your spool simply looks like a base metal, non-plated spool. The flanges are German Silver and the spindle is brass. It is not the norm; but, it is what it is.

Flanges on the old multi-piece spool loosened up sometimes, that is why Penn eventually upgraded all Senators to one piece spools by the late 1950's. The three piece spools were OK for the smaller reels; but, the stresses of big game fish are very different.

[sdlehr]

Thanks, Mike. I guess if this is German Silver it needs some work; all the German silver I've seen (in pictures) has a gloss that rivals that of chrome plate. This is inferior to that. But if it's not plated I could recondition the spool with some wet-sanding to bring out the luster in the flanges.... but that would require that I call the reel reconditioned; not sure I want to do that  yet. It actually looks OK as is, I just want to get the stains off the surface of the flanges.


Sid

[Maxed Out]

Sid, my advice is get some era correct linen line and put some on the reel. No need to fill it, but just enough to show it's been put to use. I have a couple I display that way and it makes em look more like a reel from back in the days !!

  Ted

[sdlehr]

Sheesh, I now understand what all the fuss is about German silver. The folks on ORCA, primarily a guy named m3040c that looks a lot like Mike C   talked me into working on the spool some more. I'm glad they did. It was a little pitted, so I had to start with wet 320 grit -> 400 ->1000 ->1500 ->2000 by the time I got to the end I was pretty happy. I might go back at it in a few days, it's still just a little bit pitted in a few places, but it's almost unnoticeable. This is maybe one of those situations where better is the enemy of good. I can't see the pitting I'm talking about in the photos.








There is a word that comes to mind now when I think of German silver - it is suhhhhhhhweeeeeeeet! Too bad they didn't make all reels with this pot metal. Who would have thought that an alloy of roughly 60% copper, 20% nickel and 20% zinc could look so much like silver?

Sid

[foakes]

Yeah, I was hoping you would do that with the 9/0.

I seem to recall Mike, Ray, and Ted doing similar -- and they turned out like a museum piece.

Great work.

Best,

Fred

[Bryan Young]

Wow Sid. That is incredible.

[Penn Chronology]

Beautiful Job Sid, there is nothing that polishes up like German Silver.





Penn Chronology aka Mike C. aka m3040c                                                                                                                     Otto Zwarg, Maximo, 9/0

[Rothmar2]

Stunning work Sid. Beautiful result.
Would love to do the same to an old classic one day. But no way the missus would let me have it on display in the house.

[Shark Hunter]

Stunning Work Sid.