Penn 650SS - Ideas?

[Bryan Young]

Hello everyone.

I purchased 2 Used PENN 650SS from a member here for my brother in law and sister. When taking apart the reel, which was tough because everything was so tight I almost stripped the screw heads right off. When I opened the gear box there was new PENN blue grease. Well, I discovered that a I was missing a tooth in one of the reel's brass cross wind gear. I haven't inspected the main gear as of yet. This troubled me since the reels came from a member and it appears that someone opened the reel up, didn't even bother fixing the cross wind gear when they had the reel opened, then sell it as good condition.  I think I can get the part from MysticParts, so I'll get that fixed before sending the reel out.

Second reel, same as the first but on this reel, I cannot get the main gear separated from the bearing and the side plate is sandwiched in between.  It appears that it was torqued down so much it may have expanded the main gear drive shaft. Any ideas how to remove the earring without damaging the gears?  I just cannot send out reels like this to my sister and brother in law. It has to be fixed.

Thanks,
Bryan

"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

[cbar45]

I've tapped out a few 650-SS left-side bearings that were simultaneously stuck on the main gear shaft and inside the side plate. None of the parts were ever damaged, though I imagine there is a slight risk.

The process uses a thick slab of wood, bored with multiple holes ranging from 1/4" to 3.5", as support for the part housing the stuck shaft or bearing.

With the piece of wood supported over a split-top workbench, the first step is to find a suitably-sized hole that will just allow the main gear to pass through, (but not the side-plate which sits flat on top of the wood).

Next, a slightly stepped (turned-down) dowel is inserted into the main gear shaft where the handle would normally go--such that the stepped portion rests directly on the end of the shaft, with the remaining dowel diameter able to pass through the bearing.

A block of wood is placed on top of the dowel end-grain facing down, then given a few careful taps with a hammer--thereby driving the stuck gear shaft out of the bearing/side-plate assembly. It helps to have a thick towel or similar positioned underneath your work in order to catch the main gear as it falls.

Once the gear is removed the bearing can usually be pushed out of the side-plate with your fingers, but if still stuck I repeat the above process using another dowel sized to the bearing.

I have some photos that better explain things, but they are on my wife's phone--so will try to get them posted sometime tomorrow.

Chad

[Shark Hunter]

The crosswind gear is an easy find Bryan. If there is anything wrong with the main. They are unobtanium.
A couple weeks ago, I stripped a main gear. The handle was cross threaded. I still don't have a replacement. I cleaned up the threads and put the handle in the other side. That is how my boy uses a spinner. He has it now.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-PENN-REEL-PART-Penn-650-SS-Spinning-Reel-USA-Crosswind-Gear-/300805120265?hash=item460961e109:m:mxU6r492A3unwskD2l8sXBQ

[Alto Mare]

Hello everyone.

I purchased 2 Used PENN 650SS from a member here for my brother in law and sister. When taking apart the reel, which was tough because everything was so tight I almost stripped the screw heads right off. When I opened the gear box there was new PENN blue grease. Well, I discovered that a I was missing a tooth in one of the reel's brass cross wind gear. I haven't inspected the main gear as of yet. This troubled me since the reels came from a member and it appears that someone opened the reel up, didn't even bother fixing the cross wind gear when they had the reel opened, then sell it as good condition.  I think I can get the part from MysticParts, so I'll get that fixed before sending the reel out.

Second reel, same as the first but on this reel, I cannot get the main gear separated from the bearing and the side plate is sandwiched in between.  It appears that it was torqued down so much it may have expanded the main gear drive shaft. Any ideas how to remove the earring without damaging the gears?  I just cannot send out reels like this to my sister and brother in law. It has to be fixed.

Thanks,
Bryan

"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

Bearing being snug is actually normal on these, I'm sure you will figure a way to get it free. As Daron mentioned, crosswind gears are easy to find. Another story if you need the main and pinion, I have none of those for the 650.
I just serviced a couple of reels that came from a repair shop believe it or not, I had a hard time opening them up, the crews were crazy tight.
I blame the power tool, I've mentioned it a few times here, power tool and fishing reels don't mix.
I understand that it helps with doing many reels fast, but I rather do all of mine by hand.

Sal
...If you get stuck, put them in the box and send them over.

[Cone]

    I'll look through my gears. I don't believe I have one but I may be wrong.
Bob

[Bryan Young]

Chad, thanks for the idea.  I was just in shock with what I found inside the reels, and it being 1:00 am, I just could not think how I was going to do this.

Thanks Daron, I'll see if Alan has a NOS cross wind gear.  I'll try to buy a NOS or a kit from PennParts.

It's going to my family...it has to be great!  I feel really bad if the reel should fail during fishing, but in the hands of a family member, it's worse...you never hear the end of it too.   

Thanks for the offer Sal.  I'll figure it out somehow...even if it kills me.  lol

Thanks Bob for looking. 

One good note is that both reels had brass main and pinion gears.  One had a brass cross wind gear and the other aluminum.

Thanks for your support

[foakes]

Good Morning, Bryan --

Checked, do not have a main gear -- do have main gears for the greenies.

If helpful, do have one crosswind gear left that you can have -- it is not brass, but an alloy, perhaps an aluminum alloy with a brass center sleeve pressed on.  231-650

Chad is exactly right on the method for getting the MG, Bearing, and sideplate separated -- wood dowel to tap it out.  If tough, or not budging -- application of alternating hot and cold will get it out for sure -- along with the dowel hammer tap.  I use a good soldering gun or butane flame with some icy vapor spray in a can.

On the over torqued screws -- another good reason to use manuel screwdrivers on these sideplates if an issue -- along with a good gripping handle and the proper size slot head.  Plenty of downward pressure -- and also start the screw by attempting a clockwise rotation -- then backing it out.

Having said that -- I do use a 12V Milwaukee driver (could not get by without it, in order to do any volume at all )-- knowing how to use the clutch settings properly, along with the variable speed -- and proper pressure, is key.

Then the most important thing -- greasing the screws before installing them at the proper torque setting.

On expensive or hard to replace reels like the SS,s, Avets, Internationals, Tiagras, Pro-Gears, Custom Sideplates, vintage antiques, etc. -- only by hand with the proper screwdrivers.

You have excellent judgement Bryan -- and you most likely have all of this figured out before I finish writing it -- but I am doing it for for the benefit of others on site who may need clarification.
Best,

Fred

[sharkman]

In rare cases I have used to small flat head screw drivers to act as wedges. Usually once past the initial sticking point the bearing will pop right off.

[Cone]

Bryan, I don't have one. Im sure you can get the gear and bearing apart without damaging the main. I don't think you will find the brass crosswind gear. The newer sets don't work with the old crosswind block and you have to change the crosswind gear and block. the kit is 7 0r 8  bucks IIRC.
Bob

[Bryan Young]

If helpful, do have one crosswind gear left that you can have -- it is not brass, but an alloy, perhaps an aluminum alloy with a brass center sleeve pressed on.  231-650

I use a good soldering gun or butane flame with some icy vapor spray in a can.

Thanks Fred, I could sure use it, but let me check the main gear before you send it.  I want to make sure that the main gear's cross wind gear is still good.

I keep forgetting about using a soldering gun.  Thanks for the reminder.

I'll get back to you this evening.  Thank you Fred.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bob, thanks for looking. 

[cbar45]

[Alto Mare]

Yup, that would do it Chad, I use lots of wood dowels myself, with the press.
On this particular issue, I do it a little differently and it has always worked for me.
I do not like to set the housing on a piece of wood, the pressure from the hammer blows could crack it.
I like to screw the pivot it the gear without the handle, hold the housing on a towel in my hand  and gently tap  the pivot.
This has always worked for me.

Sal

[cbar45]

Thanks for sharing another option Sal, I'll give your method a try next time.

Never had a plate crack on me, though the risk does exist.

The dowel is always lightly tapped, with most of the driving force coming from the weight of the hammer alone.

If the shaft doesn't move the first time, I resort to heating/cooling the parts as Fred described--rather than hammering harder.. 

[Bryan Young]

I did as Sal does and it's sticker than stuck.   Will try hear and cold method. Luckily the reel needs new bearings. It would do but it's noisy so I'm going new.

[handi2]

I use an old handle pivot screwed into the gear but if Bryan says it's stuck it must be really stuck bad..!!