temporary rod wrap epoxy

[q3fishboy]

I am pretty new to rod wrapping but have played around with it a little bit.

Have a couple of rods that I have re-wrapped but not coated in epoxy/flex coat yet.

Not entirely satisfied with them and debating re-wrapping them again, but want to fish them for now.

Is there any sort of flex coat type product that I could coat them with but remove relatively easily?

In the past I have done a couple guides where I just fished the rod without any coating on the thread.

However, this particular rod seems like the guides near the tip are moving significantly without any coating.

I thought the wraps were fairly tight, but maybe not tight enough?

Thanks a bunch.

[Newell Nut]

The U 40 permgloss would be easy to brush on and dries fast and would seal the threads. Easy removal later. Do about 3 coats since it goes on really light like water but is very durable.

[Marcq]

You have to be careful with Permagloss, it's nasty stuff to breathe

Marc..

[cbar45]

Are you just wanting to fish the rod once before you re-wrap? If so, you really don't need anything covering the thread. Perhaps a few wraps of tape to reinforce those loose guides, and you are good to go. Of course, some care must be taken not to abrade the thread to the point that the wrap unravels, but the chance of that happening in one trip is relatively low.

If you were hoping to see whether or not epoxy finish would strengthen the loose guide wraps, the answer is yes/no; Yes, in that the guides might end up feeling like they are locked in place. No, in that the tension of the thread binding the guide to the blank does not change. Thus the guides can, in time, work themselves loose again--and then you are back to square one. The quote "Anything worth doing, is worth doing right" comes to mind here, and in all likelihood is the sentiment that led you to consider a re-wrap.

Which brings us to the last concern about thread tension. Much like a reel's drag pressure, thread tension changes depending on the amount of thread left on the bobbin. It may also change due to the decreasing (or increasing) diameter of the blank as you proceed to wrap. Next time you wrap a guide try this: Pinch the thread between your thumb and forefinger and pull a foot or so off the spool. Adjust tension to where it takes a bit of effort to get the spool turning, but not so much that you are straining, or over-stretching the thread.

Remember this setting as your default thread tension, suitable for beginning and sustaining a wrap. It helps to always check your default tension each time you begin a new wrap. As the wrap nears completion-and a few turns before you insert your pull-through loop--you may wish to bump up the tension slightly; a 1/8 to 1/4" turn of the wing nut on my thread carriage usually does it for me. This slightly higher wrap-ending tension helps to lock tag ends in place. It is also useful on short-footed guides, especially when they are placed on the small-diameter, upper half, of a rod blank.

Chad

[cbar45]

You have to be careful with Permagloss, it's nasty stuff to breathe

Marc..

A respirator approved for organic vapors (xylene) is a very good investment.

[Marcq]

You have to be careful with Permagloss, it's nasty stuff to breathe

Marc..

A respirator approved for organic vapors (xylene) is a very good investment.

Yes!!

Marc..

[q3fishboy]

Thanks for all of the suggestions.

The rod wrapper I have been using does not tension the thread by applying pressure to the spool.  Instead, it pinches the thread directly after it has left the spool.  However, depending on how far between the cupped washers the thread becomes wedged, the tension become inconsistent.  I will try to take a pictures and post it when I get a chance.

The threads feel pretty tight and I can't really move them with my finger or anything.  I am able to rotate the guides themselves, but they don't slide super easily or anything.  I guess just the way I cast their is quite a bit of force on one side of the guide so they turn.

I'm not really worried about wearing or damaging the thread itself.  I have another guide that I rewrapped a single guide on.  I have been fishing it without coating the thread for around a year now and haven't had any problems.  It should be wrapped with a similar amount of tension on the thread.  I guess just because it was towards the middle of the rod, the issue with the side load on the guide from my cast has not been an issue.

So, I guess I am just wondering if coating the thread in epoxy would help prevent the guides would moving.  If so, is there an easily removable adhesive I could use to make my life easier if I decide to rewrap the rod again in the near future.


Newell Nut - I have not used U40 permagloss before, but I believe it is a "normal" epoxy for rod wrapping.  How would it be easily removed later on?

cbar45 - What kind of tape would you be using to reinforce the loose guides?  Would you just be taping over the thread?


Thanks a bunch for all of the help guys.

[day0ne]

I have fished one rod for years with only color preserver on it. Keeps the thread clean

[oc1]

I hate to make a long term commitment and just use a thin coat of polyester varnish from the hardware store.  Just enough to wet the thread and wipe off the excess.  It does not preserve the color, has more abrasion resistance than color preserver, stiffens up the guide, and can be easily removed without leaving a mark.
-steve

[cbar45]

The rod wrapper I have been using does not tension the thread by applying pressure to the spool.  Instead, it pinches the thread directly after it has left the spool.  However, depending on how far between the cupped washers the thread becomes wedged, the tension become inconsistent.  I will try to take a pictures and post it when I get a chance.

Ah yes, Disc-type tensioners can be more finicky to dial in than those which apply tension directly to the spool.

The threads feel pretty tight and I can't really move them with my finger or anything.  I am able to rotate the guides themselves, but they don't slide super easily or anything.  I guess just the way I cast their is quite a bit of force on one side of the guide so they turn.

Ideally you want the wrap to be just tight enough, that it takes some effort to move the guides and adjust their alignment if needed. If you can't move the guides by hand at all, then the wrap is actually too tight. It's hard to say without examining the wrap in person, but from your description it sounds like you are close.

So, I guess I am just wondering if coating the thread in epoxy would help prevent the guides would moving.  If so, is there an easily removable adhesive I could use to make my life easier if I decide to rewrap the rod again in the near future.

Thread is what holds the guides to the blank, with epoxy serving to protect the thread while also "locking" the guides in place once you have adjusted them to your satisfaction. This is not to say that epoxy is the cure-all for loose wraps--rather the point is that a guide wrapped with sufficient tension should never move again once epoxy has been applied.   

Regarding two-part epoxy rod finish, you can make the removal process easier by using color preserver over the thread. This acts as a barrier preventing finish from adhering all the way through to the blank. Another trick is to apply the color preserver and rod finish to just the thread itself--no overlapping onto the blank. A wrap done in that manner should take only a minute or two to remove; maybe seconds if you use spar or polyester varnish as Steve described. The downside to such a minimalist wrap is that it affords less protection against water getting underneath the thread.

cbar45 - What kind of tape would you be using to reinforce the loose guides?  Would you just be taping over the thread?

Sorry, I think I used the word "reinforce" in the wrong context. What I meant was for the guide to be rewrapped using only the tape. Automotive masking tape is strong and has low residue. The green 3M tape (233) is a good choice. Another option would be to do a secondary wrap over your existing guide wrap--it does not need to be perfect--just enough to keep the guide from going out of alignment.

Chad

[q3fishboy]

Chad - Thanks for all of the help.

I think the wraps should be around the right tension, so, it is mostly the "locking" effect of the epoxy that I am trying to replicate with something that I can later remove fairly easily.

Could you give me a little more detail on what the spar of polyester varnish products are?  Seems like that is the closest thing to what I am looking to accomplish?

Thanks for the clarification on the tape.  Don't think I will go that route as I think the current wraps are decently tight etc.  Just considering changing a couple things with some of the wraps later when I have time.

At the moment, the guides just have a single wrap straight on to the blank.  How would the second layer of wrapping prevent them from becoming misaligned?  Is it just providing an additional layer of tension?  And you think the second layer would hold the guides securely enough even without any sort of coating?

Thanks again for all of the help everyone.

[cbar45]

Could you give me a little more detail on what the spar of polyester varnish products are?  Seems like that is the closest thing to what I am looking to accomplish?

I'll let Steve describe the poly product he uses. As for spar varnish, it's main purpose is to protect wood in an outdoor or marine environment, (hence the name "spar"). It's flexible and has good UV resistance, but starts off an amber color that darkens over time. In some cases the varnish weathers and must be re-applied every few years or so. Being thinner than epoxy finish, it is easily applied with a brush--lightly saturating the thread and wicking off the excess as the rod is turning. Here is the brand I've come to rely on, manufactured and sold by Ace Hardware:

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12664445&KPID=12365820&pla=pla_12365820

Further reading on spar varnish courtesy of the fly-rod guys; they use the product probably more than any other rod-builder:

http://fiberglassflyrodders.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17421

http://fiberglassflyrodders.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15497

At the moment, the guides just have a single wrap straight on to the blank.  How would the second layer of wrapping prevent them from becoming misaligned?  Is it just providing an additional layer of tension?  And you think the second layer would hold the guides securely enough even without any sort of coating?

You got it, the second layer is solely to provide additional tension over the guide foot. It is best wrapped in the direction opposite of which you wrapped the first layer. This helps prevent the wrapping thread from falling into the space between the the threads already laid. A second layer done with slightly increased tension, would likely be enough to hold the guide in place such that the rod can be fished without finish over the wraps--if desired.

Chad

[q3fishboy]

Cool.  Thanks so much for all of the help.  For the spar finish, you are just applying a thin coat with a brush and then wiping off the excess with something?  How would you go about removing it when I decided to do so?  Thanks again.

[oc1]

Yeah, a small brush to wet the thread and then immediately wipe it all off with a paper towel.  To strip the rod cut a thread on top of the guide foot, unwind it, then wipe the blank with paint thinner or acetone to remove any residue.  Most of the rods I use have been wrapped more than once.  I don't know where Fuji KWAG no-tangle guides have been all my life but they really work well on long whippy rods that are prone to wind knots.  Slowly switching everything to KWAG now.
-steve