Hollow core spectra on spinning reels??

[oldtrackster]

Shimano's Power Pro Hollow Ace is supposedly spliceable down to 40 lb.

[Bryan Young]

I'm sure they are, but my hands and eyes cannot splice lower than 60# spectra, and that is already difficult.

[Dominick]

Bryan, anyone, Do you know what is the largest size mono topshot that will thread into 130 hollow core.  Dominick

[Bryan Young]

That's a simple and difficult question in one.  My idiot answer is "it all depends."  It depends on the manufacture and model of the hollow spectra you are using as well as the top shot you are stuffing into the hollow core spectra.

In general, I've seen one less class of mono/fluorocarbon.  For example, you are using a 130# hollow core.  You can probably use 100# topshot.  If you are using thin lines, like the ones that come from Korea, you may be able to use 130# topshot.

Let me check with my Blackwater buddies for Blackwater hollow to Blackwater Shock Leader top shot and will get back to you.

[Dominick]

Bryan:  More specifically, I have 130 Jerry Brown.  I checked out Blackwater but cannot see the difference for the premium price.  What are the brands coming from Korea? Also are the Korean brands reliable or are they untested?  I am of the opinion that (jump in and let me know if I am wrong) why use something less than 130 for the top shot, when that would only weaken the set-up?  The only reason for the hollow core Spectra is to lessen the stretch that occurs with all mono.  I am not worried about being spooled unless I hook into a Seal (sorry Alan ).  Using hollow core will get the fish to the boat quicker and with less strain.  Am I off.  I am trying to gather as much information as I can before finishing up spooling my 50VSW.  I will be tournament fishing for big Tuna.  Dominick

[Bryan Young]

Well, I checked with my friends at Blackwater and they essentially said that you should not go below then next lower class.  So basically, if you are fishing 130# hollow core, the minimum size they recommend is 100# leader.  130# hollow core is recommended to splice 130# leader.

The reason why use a lower test on your top shot/leader?  Good question.  I believe that it is because of the reel itself.  You can put a 50# spectra on a reel designed for 20#, so you size your top-shot based on the reel's limitations.  That is my guess.

[SoCalAngler]

If you don't mind I will chime in here.

First one of the reasons Blackwater spectra costs so much is because it is a 16 strand braid. If you look at Jerry Brown 80lb hollow and I believe his 100lb you will notice it costs more than his 130lb. A few years back I asked Jerry about why the 80lb cost more (this was before he had 100lb) and his answer to me was because it was a 16 strand spectra and that a 16 strand costs more to manufacture.

Sometimes fish are a bit line shy that is the main reason to step down say from a 130lb to 100lb top shot. When your using big leaders like this mostly your fishing big fish and the main thing your looking for in this type of leader is abrasion resistance not breaking strength. Go ahead and pull on some strait 100lb floro or mono, I bet it is real tough to break, a lot tougher than the drag pressure you will be using. Now if your on a cow tuna, grander marlin or a toad swordfish most likely you will be on that fish for a while and this is where you will want a top shot with the most abrasion resistance possible. There is a saying "friends don't let friends fish 100lb test when cow town". Why do you think that is? Maybe it is because people have seen others to often lose a fish of a lifetime right outside of gaff range after a long battle because they decided to go with a lighter top shot.

The main reason spectra was put on west coast reels was because you could get more yards of line on a reel which aided greatly to our style of fishing not because of its much less strech.

[Bryan Young]

Thank you SoCalAngler.  Good to know.

[Dominick]

SocalAngler:  Here is what I'm thinking of doing.  Feel free to shoot it down.  This is on the 50SVW, 130lb Hollow Core Spectra.  Chinese cuff 130lb mono for top shot approximately 80-100yds.  At the end of the 130lb mono I will use an Invisaswivel.  I have in my arsenal 40-60-80-100lb flourocarbon to tie on for a leader depending on the size fish bait, etc. Keeping in mind that I also use this reel for Marlin while dragging lures.  You are right about abrasion resistance.  The marlin lures have 8 feet of 300lb leader attached.  My cedar plugs and other Tuna lures have 8 feet of 150lb leader.  I also get the concept of the drag pressure being used.  I also do not want to pull on a fish for hours unless it is a monster.  My personal best is a 300 lb Blue Marlin which took about 35 minutes.  I have been on longer for Striped Marlin using the boat's equipment because of line strength, drag settings, etc.  The longest I had a fish on (Tuna or giant ray) was 50 minutes and never brought it to color.  Dominick

[SoCalAngler]

Chinese cuff 130lb mono for top shot approximately 80-100yds.  At the end of the 130lb mono I will use an Invisaswivel.  I have in my arsenal 40-60-80-100lb flourocarbon to tie on for a leader depending on the size fish bait, etc. Keeping in mind that I also use this reel for Marlin while dragging lures. 

I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with your rig setup this way. Are you trying to use one reel to fish 40 thru 100lb test? I see your using a 50 wide so that will be a whole lot of spectra, are you trying to keep the amount of spectra on the reel down? It appears you are with the long topshot, if this is the case you could always spool the reel with mono then spectra then back to mono to keep the spectra cost down. It has always been my thought to limit my connections as much as I can so why don't you go from your topshot strait to the hook or lure? I'm not trying to shoot anything down I guess I don't get what you are trying to do.

[Bryan Young]

I have a few friends that are trying this technique out.  They are spooling their Tiagra 80s with 180# spectra then 130# mono.   I'm not sure how much spectra, but I think it is in the realm of 600 yards of spectra and the rest with mono.  On their small boats, they really cannot horse the fish in, and will need the fish to run for a while before they can actually begin the reeling.  So they want to make sure that they have ample line to allow this.  They don't predict that the line will ever go to spectra, but knowing that they have ample capacity just in case.

[Dominick]

Socalangler,  I am not sure either.  My research of the subject comes up with so many varying opinions I am not sure how to proceed.  The set-up in my last post was an Idea to cover many fishing conditions.  Here is my experience from fishing Baja regularly.  When a school of Tuna is found fishing is done chumming and live lining Sardina.  Yellow tail are line shy.  When the fish are line shy we need to change the hook and the line.  The Sardina are small, so a 1/0 is about the size you can get away with.  Sometimes a 2/0 if the Sardina are a little bigger than usual.  Those little fish cannot drag 100lb flouro, so we have to drop down the line weight.  Basically it is a balancing act of matching the tackle with conditions.  Also with the lighter line you run the risk of hooking a large Tuna and losing it after a lot of time is spent fighting it.  Something I hae done many times.  Of course I have other set-ups ready to go instead of the 50.  When the rod is set with lures or Tuna feathers I tie directly to the 130.  So I will continue to research until I get a good consensus of how to rig up.

[SoCalAngler]

If I was going to set up a 50 sized reel to fish Baja first of all it wouldn't be a wide reel but if this what you have so be it and I hope it works well for you. You will be able to get a ton of spectra on that reel that's why I said you could lay down some mono first then add as much spectra as you want. I would add a topshot of around 75 feet or shorter and you can make what ever kind of connection you like for your topshot such as a Bimini  to reverse Albrite if you want to tie, Sato crimps or a Nail Nub for the finger cuff method or whatever. Being on a cruiser or in a panga you have the option to chase real big fish if needed that the Long Range fleet does not have so you will not need a huge amount of spectra if any at all with a wide reel. I know over the long run spectra will save you some money when re spooling but with a 50 W that's going to take some time. Personally I would not use a 50 sized reel for yellowtail or dorado, I would use it for 150lb plus tuna or the big billfish and that's pretty much it. I know then fishing in Cabo or the East Cape you are not sure what might grab your offering but do you need to bring a bazooka to a gun fight?

My father lives in Puerto Escondido which is around 17 miles south of Loreto in Baja and we have had our share of unsuspected catches, like two years ago a friends boat had issues so we went over to see if he needed any help. While waiting for him we see bait explode around us with two sailfish slashing thru it. I grab a 50lb bait rig and toss out a bait because we had some time to kill while waiting for the other guy. I get picked up and set the hook (circles of course for billfish) this fish acts like no sailfish and 45 minutes later we have 250lb thresher hooked in the corner of the mouth boat side. Or the last time I was there while fishing for tails at a high spot 250 feet deep we send down some baits but the first bait in the water gets down around 75 feet when the line starts screaming off the reel. The hook is set and out of the water leaps a striped marlin, so I know of the bycatch issue in Baja.

I would save the 50 for hunting big game and use other setups for your 40-50-60 or whatever.

[Dominick]

Socal:  I see by my last post I made a mistake and said yellow tail  and I meant yellow fin.  Yes I am setting the 50 up for big Tuna and big Marlin.  I bought the 50 vsw on flea bay it was new in the box and I got it for less than $375.00.  It is the older 50vsw.  I would not have opted for the wide had I been paying full fare.  I know what you are talking about when you say unsuspected catches.  This past March while we were live lining Sardina for schoolie Tuna, I hooked a Striped Marlin.  I was fishing with a Penn Torque 100 with 25lb test line and a 1/0 hook.  I was going to play it for a while but it jumped and came down on the line.  Gave me 20 second rush.  As a matter of fact, I don't usually take the 50 down with me in the spring.  I do take it in the fall though.  In the spring I take a Penn International 30 2 speed, Baja Special, Penn Torques 100 and 300 and a Penn Senator 114HLW.  These set-ups cover everything expected in the spring.  As an aside, I have a daughter who lives in Loreto.  I sometimes make a fast trip down take a panga day or two.  Dominick

[SoCalAngler]

Dominic I'm going to PM you.