Penn 12/0 drag upgrade- trouble shooting

[Alto Mare]

There are differences in the steel and bronze gears. I use steel whenever possible. It just seems to work out better for me.
Send Adam a pm. I'm sure he will hook you up. I will see what I have.

Not to disagree with you and I'm glad your SS gears are working better for you.
On this particular reel, actually from the 10/0 and up to the 16/0, to me the brass main gear is a better choice and much smoother.
Now, if I've seen even just one of the stripped brass gear on these, I would change my mind.

In the past,  it was advised here that there was no need for one, but don't remember who from. I had stars back up on me a couple of times, I now use tension springs on all my Penn, but you guys do as you please.

Sal

I would like to try a light Belleville washer from an International, and a wavy spring to help flatten the low end curve a bit, and keep the star in place.  I have used Delron top cupped washer, or a SS cupped spring washer over a delron in place of stock. 

There is only so much space to work with though.

And honestly I havn't messed around too much with different options on these guys yet.
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A light belleville ( spring washer ) might not work on these, you would need a stiff one.
A Delrin belleville does wonders on my Jigmasters, I really like it.

Sal

[RowdyW]

It also seems to tighten well when using the ring washer I took off a 2015 Penn 12/0 model. This Penn 12/0 I rebuilt was pretty old, it had very old carbon fiber washers, so not significantly old, but definitely not a newer model with the chrome spool.

What are your thoughts of use the ring washer and/or a traditional metal washer at the end before the star?

Image attached with the ring washer.

Thanks,
Wade

The spacer sleeve goes on top of the chromed stepped washer & felt ring.

[Shark Hunter]

It also seems to tighten well when using the ring washer I took off a 2015 Penn 12/0 model. This Penn 12/0 I rebuilt was pretty old, it had very old carbon fiber washers, so not significantly old, but definitely not a newer model with the chrome spool.

What are your thoughts of use the ring washer and/or a traditional metal washer at the end before the star?

Image attached with the ring washer.

Thanks,
Wade
With that spacer on top, you are not going to have enough room for the star and handle. You look to be at the right height without it.
What are you greasing the drags with?[quote author=Alto Mare link=topic=19227.msg205092#msg205092 date=1474633318]

There are differences in the steel and bronze gears. I use steel whenever possible. It just seems to work out better for me.
Send Adam a pm. I'm sure he will hook you up. I will see what I have.

Not to disagree with you and I'm glad your SS gears are working better for you.
On this particular reel, actually from the 10/0 and up to the 16/0, to me the brass main gear is a better choice and much smoother.
Now, if I've seen even just one of the stripped brass gear on these, I would change my mind.
I agree with the Bronze being smoother Sal. Its a Mental thing with me and the Steel. Also, When Adam first designed these inserts. We used steel gears for fitment of the original prototype.

[wsenti]

I'm using Cals purple grease. Should I not use the spacer washer and a regular washer?

The issue is when I tighten the star it won't put enough pressure on the drag washers to actually create a real drag.

I could just use a regular flat metal washer from a normal carbon fiber drag that comes with most new Penn 12/0s at the top before the star.

[Alto Mare]

It also seems to tighten well when using the ring washer I took off a 2015 Penn 12/0 model. This Penn 12/0 I rebuilt was pretty old, it had very old carbon fiber washers, so not significantly old, but definitely not a newer model with the chrome spool.

What are your thoughts of use the ring washer and/or a traditional metal washer at the end before the star?

Image attached with the ring washer.

Thanks,
Wade
With that spacer on top, you are not going to have enough room for the star and handle. You look to be at the right height without it.
What are you greasing the drags with?[quote author=Alto Mare link=topic=19227.msg205092#msg205092 date=1474633318]

There are differences in the steel and bronze gears. I use steel whenever possible. It just seems to work out better for me.
Send Adam a pm. I'm sure he will hook you up. I will see what I have.

Not to disagree with you and I'm glad your SS gears are working better for you.
On this particular reel, actually from the 10/0 and up to the 16/0, to me the brass main gear is a better choice and much smoother.
Now, if I've seen even just one of the stripped brass gear on these, I would change my mind.
I agree with the Bronze being smoother Sal. Its a Mental thing with me and the Steel. Also, When Adam first designed these inserts. We used steel gears for fitment of the original prototype.

Both gears will do just fine in these larger reels, the brass has an advantage when used the aluminum insert. I just didn't want the newer guys toss the brass gears to purchase new steel gears if they didn't have to.
All my reels that I've upgraded up to the 9/0 have stainless steel gears.

I'm using Cals purple grease. Should I not use the spacer washer and a regular washer?

The issue is when I tighten the star it won't put enough pressure on the drag washers to actually create a real drag.

I could just use a regular flat metal washer from a normal carbon fiber drag that comes with most new Penn 12/0s at the top before the star.

You are having issues with that belleville ( the cupped washer) will not work, unless you make its diameter the same size as the metal washers in the insert.
The belleville is hitting the top of the insert and it shouldn't. It might be easier on you to remove that belleville all together and replace it with a flat keyed washer, spacer on top and one of these on top of the spacer:
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/8-115.aspx
the only thing you will need to do is to enlarge the hole on the new tension spring by 1/16"...very easy to do, instead of making that belleville smaller.

"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

[Tightlines667]

I have seen heavily worn bronze mains, that needed replacing.  The bushing at the bittom is often loose too.

I agree with your point about the smoothness of the bronze mains, and they are large with big teeth, and rarely fail.  

But it just seems to me when you start increasimg the drag to really big numbers with these inserts, considering stronger SS gears seems worthwhile. 

You don't see anything but heat-treated steel and SS gears in the penn lever drag reels, they choose strength over smoothness here.  Cal did the samevwith his 2-speed conversions.

Just some thoughts.

[Alto Mare]

Increasing drags makes that same reel much smoother at where it was meant to be fished at. Smooth drags don't heat up as much.
I didn't say the brass gears don't wear out on these reels, I said I've never seen one. If you have some laying around, post a pic, I would love to see them. The plastic or brass insert doesn't just wear out on those, I've seen it on a few other gears, that is another issue,lieve the cause is related to twisting under stress.
Most reels we customize have frames or bars instead of posts, we should be fine.

John, Wsenti is asking about his drags and we're pulling away from his questions, so I'm not going to keep adding to this, maybe we'll discuss it another time when we get another chance.

[Tightlines667]

Increasing drags makes that same reel much smoother at where it was meant to be fished at. Smooth drags don't heat up as much.
I didn't say the brass gears don't wear out on these reels, I said I've never seen one. If you have some laying around, post a pic, I would love to see them. The plastic or brass insert doesn't just wear out on those, I've seen it on a few other gears, that is another issue,lieve the cause is related to twisting under stress.
Most reels we customize have frames or bars instead of posts, we should be fine.

John, Wsenti is asking about his drags and we're pulling away from his questions, so I'm not going to keep adding to this, maybe we'll discuss it another time when we get another chance.

Rodger.

[wsenti]

I'm deciding between adding:

A) the smaller ring that normal completes the stack on a traditional drag setup

or

B) just a metal washer

The reason for my logic of using the smaller ring is that it will actually push the drag stick in using the star as opposed to a normal metal washer that has a diameter wider than the drag insert.

What are your thoughts? Either of those two seem to do the trick for my drag....

[RowdyW]

The smaller ring as you call it is the spacer sleeve & belongs on top of the washer with the felt ring. On top of the spacer sleeve put the thick wavy washer & then the star, then the handle, & then the handle screw. Done!      Rudy

[Saaben]

Hey Rudy, I think you caught my eccentric backwards as well. Good eye.

[RowdyW]

I sent you a PM      Rudy