Cleaning Mag Seal Bearings?

[farnorthlbg]

Hi all

Just wondering if anyone has any experience cleaning Mag Seal bearings and what the procedure is?

Ive been told by a couple of sources that they cannot be cleaned or flushed (with naphtha, hydrocarbons, toluene, white gas etc.) as the solvent will remove the oil but leave behind microscopic ferrous particles which will remain attached to the magnets inside the bearing and make things worse.

I dont know how much truth there is to this and was hoping someone with more experience could clear this up for me.

Cheers!

Jon

[handi2]

That makes sense because that stuff is a bear to clean off of anything.

[farnorthlbg]

I could imagine handi2

As I said though, this is secondhand information to me by a fellow service agent who has had allot to do with Mag Sealed reels since Daiwa introduced the technology to there reels.

If this is the case, Im 'geussing' all that can be done is to keep reintroducing ferro fluid to the bearing until it burns-out/fails then replace with a new bearing (?).

Im wondering also how would you approach a Mag Sealed bearing that has come from a reel that has gone for an unvoluntary swim.  If the bearing cant be cleaned/flushed to remove residual saltwater that is trapped inside and 'all you can do' (supposedly) is reintroduce more ferro fluid then wouldnt you just be replenishing a contaminated bearing?

Interesting stuff, hoping someone can chime in and put me straight haha!

[Bryan Young]

I thought the mag seal was introduced to prevent salt and water intrusion into the bearing and the reel?

[handi2]

If its a new reel it should be able to get duncked and not hurt the bearings. Ive worked on them and you would have to demagnetize the bearings to get the old lubricant out. If you want it cleaned like it should be.

I just put a new SS bearing in...

That stuff is messy, doesn't work, and is a marketing ploy.

On spinning reels all you have to do is grease the handle and cap openings and its sealed just as well as Mag Seal.

You can see a rusted bearing that could have easily been prevented.

[farnorthlbg]

I would have thought so too Bryan but to what degree?  The horror pictures Ive seen of the mag oil congealing and degrading over time (almost dried up) I imagine that would compromise the ferro fluid seals ability to prevent water intrusion.

If the seal was intact you could trust it would be 'splash-proof' but a full submersion with the force and pressure behind the water entering the reel, I wonder?

I dunno, it just doesnt sound right to me topping up a mag seal bearing that has been in saltwater without cleaning it.

Maybe it is the case and Im just reading too much into it?

[farnorthlbg]

Aha!

Thanks for that handi2, much appreciated info mate!

I was thinking as much regarding replacement, so a well lubed and maintained Japanese stainless bearing would suffice fine when the factory mag seal bearings are poked?

If so, would certainly save $$$ considering the price of new mag sealed bearings!

[handi2]

You can see the Shimano reel above. Inside the reel shows the still white grease. It hasn't even turned black yet showing not overly used or old.

If the cap opening had been filled with grease it would not need a new bearing.

[farnorthlbg]

Yes exp2000, it seems youre secondhand information from a Daiwa tech contradicts my secondhand information from a Daiwa tech.

Do you have any first hand experience with extracting/flushing mag oil from a mag sealed bearing with whatever procedure necessary in order to reinstate it with new ferrofluid?

[farnorthlbg]

Hey, what happened to youre posts exp2000 

[farnorthlbg]

Looking at a cross sectional diagram of a Daiwa mag seal bearing, a flat, cylindrical magnet is mounted to the pole plates which look to be the shields of the bearing.

I wonder if a neodymium magnet would have enough strength in its magnetic field to pull the mag oil out.  From the diagrams Ive looked at it shows the mag oil holding on the inner edge of the magnet and magnetic pole plates to the outside edge of the inner ring.  Be interesting to find out how far the magnetic disc pulls the mag oil inside the bearing.  Considering the surface area of the the magnetic disc and magnetic pole plates extends from the inner ring to the inside of the outter ring, youd think the mag oil would be well distributed (even though the diagram shows otherwise) throughout the inside of the bearing.

If it is well distributed and you were to try and use a magnet to extract the mag oil from the bearing I wonder if its magnetic field would have enough strength to pull the oil from the depths of the bearings inernals.  If its only holding as per the diagram it would probably work.  Not sure how introducing a magnet to the bearings pole plates and magnets would affect them though.

The shields look to be stamped in and non removable (dont quote me on this, Im just going off pictures!), if they were removable the process might be easier.

Think Im just gonna have to purchase a couple of new bearings and experiment with them before attempting anything on my own mag sealed reels

[ReelClean]

The only magseal bearing I have come across is the LRB in a '13 Certate.  The bearing (open, no seals) was full of reddish stained grease, so I assume the magoil went through the grease because the bearing flushed out clean.  The LRB is just a conventional bearing with the  mag part as Jon has described, just a flat magnetised washer to hold the oil in the gap between the washer and the outer race of the brg.  I just flushed it through and repacked it, then after the washer is assembled on top of the stack introduced the oil.  Perhaps if you can get the sideplates off the bearing you might end up with a bearing you can service as usual.  The only other thing that exp2000 mentioned when talking recently was that the bearing seemed to be slightly oversize compared to standard, so it might be harder to find a stock size replacement. If someone has one come over their bench perhaps a measurement might be in order to see if they can be replaced by a standard size.
cheers
Steve

[farnorthlbg]

Hi Steve, thanks for youre input mate.

So, have I got this right Steve...A Daiwa Mag Sealed bearing actually contains grease in the race/balls for lubrication and the mag oil is only used to create the seal and not for lubrication purposes?

Is there anyone out there who has come across a Daiwa mag seal bearing with removable shields?

[ReelClean]

I haven't seen the new "integrated" magseal bearing in the flesh, but I would suspect that it is grease packed, then sealed and magoiled (as was the LRB).  No ferrofluid I have come across in any application is for lubrication, only for sealing or heat transfer (speakers). 

[ReelClean]

So I was wrong (I thought I was wrong once before, but that was a mistake    )

One of the members here has been exchanging PMs with me. He contacted Ferrotec and received this info which he is happy to share.

I got a reply from Ferrotec Industries USA:

Their chemists seem to think there would be no reason why the APG L11 class ferrofluid wouldnt work to lubricate magnetic ball bearings.
They did mention they produce a class of ferrofluid especially for this which is very similar almost identical in makeup and ingredients to the APG L11 fluid.
I wonder if theyre referring to the fluid they manufacture for Daiwa?

The APG L11 fluid is the one I selected for Unobtainoil to replace Magseal oil, it seems it may also be satisfactory for lubing the mag bearing.
cheers
Steve