Penn Intl II TW help

[urbanRenewal]

   
I have a Penn Intl 30 II TW that I recently acquired.  The knob that adjusts the drag setting was in "free spool" so the drag could not be adjusted except by moving the lever less or more.  I took it apart replaced the knob and freed up the mechanism that threads in and out that the know engages and everything now appears to be working except...

With the drag backed all the way off by the time you get to the "strike" position the reel is almost locked up.  Tightening the drag makes the lock-up come sooner than the strike position.  At all settings there is free spool.  The drag is smooth against a pull and the drag washer looks like new. 

The best I can describe is it behaves like the drag is starting off set way too high even though the drag knob is backed all the way off. 

Any recommendations where the problem might be?

Thanks,  Tom

[kamuwela]

check the cam it may have flipped over. it may be 180 degrees out

[urbanRenewal]

I took your advice and checked the cam. It appears to be oriented correctly.  While I was putting it back together I also rechecked the number and orientation of the bellevue washers.  Everything looks like it should be working but there is still something wrong.  Here's what I see:

Drag backed off all the way.  Free spool is fine.  Advance the drag lever and you can see the whole spool shift slightly to the left.  Back off on the lever and as it goes into freespool there is a slight "klunk" and you can see the spool shift back towards the right (handle side).

With the drag backed all the way off with the knob and advancing the lever, by the time you get halfway to Strike you have major drag.  You can't hardly go past Strike with the lever.   

Turning the knob to increase the drag moves major drag closer to the free spool setting.  By the time you get to ¾ or 1 rev of the drag knob you cant move the drag lever off Free, and there is a just a very slight drag at the Free setting. 

There is no drag setting save leaving it backed off all the way and using the lever between Free and Strike to adjust drag.

When I was putting the right side plate back on I had to press down against a spring tension to seat the plate against the frame.  It's like it's already getting pre-tightened during assembly but I cant figure out what could be causing the problem. 

Any other hints or suggestions would be appreciated.

Tom

[kamuwela]

try removing the drag lever turn it over and spin the cam then flip the lever back over and try again. this will spin the cam with out removing the side plate. for some reason i feel it is in the cam. some tension is always on the side plate. if the spool didnt seat well you couldnt get free spool.

[urbanRenewal]

I'll give that a try tomorrrow and post the result.  I'm still trying to visualize the way this works. I'm thinking the drag is being pre-loaded when you install the right side. 

Thanks for your patience,    Tom

[urbanRenewal]

Kamuwela, 

Thanks for your continued help.  I think I have (almost) run out of ideas here.  I did what you suggested and it's still the same problem.  All the right side stuff seems to be working properly.  As you turn the drag preset knob you can see the spool shifting slowly left and the drag (using the lever) loses range.  Free spool always works though, even with the preset cranked down hard. 

I've studied the Penn exploded view and parts trying to figure out what would cause the drag preset to have no range and don't see a smoking gun.

One last thought, the drag washer looks like new.  Maybe the wrong washer was installed in the reel (either part # 7 or part 117DN) ?   I'm thinking that if it was thicker, once you came out of free spool it would immediately be at some advanced drag setting.  I dont have enough experiance with this reel yet to know if drag washers for it come in different thicknesses.

Tom Urban

[gon42na]

Was the drag in this condition when you got it? Trying to find out if someone had previously taken it down for service far enough that they pushed the bearing cup out of the side plate and didn't locate it right when reassembling. Ok, believe it, I had one in the shop with that exact problem that took me a month to decipher. Exactly the same symtoms that you discribe.
Make sure all bearings are fully seated in the cups ALL, side plates and spool. Particularly,the bearing in the cam follower should be near flush with the sides of the cup assuming that the pins are in the detents. CAm follower screwed all the in and installed in the side plate. That should put the two tabs on the cam follower in a position to recieve the lever which should be pointing to the free position. IF not someone has removed and reinstalled the side plate bearing reciever incorrectly.
again check the bellevue washers (cup to cup).
I agree with Kam it's right in the CAM somewhere or you've got a cocked bearing somewhere. I'd point out too, put the spool in the side plate with the shaft thru and make sure it's seated far enough so that the anti reverse dogs work. You can stll get a free spool if the spool is riding above the dogs that aren't in the track. I do an awful lot of these reels and would be interested in your results. Feel free to pm me, Bob

[gon42na]

ok so I'm a dumb I thought this was a 130 you were talking about. my bad, sorry

[urbanRenewal]

Bob,  I'm not sure what the comment meant about a 130 but everything you said is worth checking again.  I've been scratching my head over this so going one more time through the parts cant hurt. 

I'll post up when I've given it a re-do.

Thanks,  Tom

[kamuwela]

im not trying to beat a dead horse but the 30 and 130 are the same.  bob has seen this also. look at key number 141 cam follower 142 locating pin's and number 10 cam housing. ive seen the pins corroded and also the cam follower hang up on the cam housing.   back off the pre set all the way then check cam position try repositoning the the cam by fliping the lever over and move the cam then reinstall the lever. the pins could also be holding the bearing out a little. like bob said it should be flush

[alantani]

my first guess was that you had an extra belleville or thrust washer in line.  if you have a flat thrust washer next to the bellevilles, my might actually try taking that out and see what happens.  it sounds like the problem is in the side plate.  the whole thing will need to come apart, then cleaned, lubed and put back together again.  make sure it functions smoothly and try again. 

sure there's not an extra washer in the belleville stack?

[urbanRenewal]

I took it all apart, cleaned it all up.  Double checked the belleville's.  Two sets correctly oriented.  I found a small burr on one end of the slot in the adjusting screw (part 143).  Thinking that may hold it from fully bottoming out I cleaned that up.  Everything looked good but no dice.  Same problem.

Removed the side again and noticed Part #4, the cam thrust washer.  I wasn't sure it was the same thrust washer that Alan mentioned. This one is a thin Teflon-like washer.  But, since nothing else was fixing it I removed it and started reassembling.  As it went together the adjusting screw mechanism was seating a little higher viewed from the side plate; I was going to get less pre-load.  I started getting a good feeling. 

Finished.  I now have adjustable drag using the adjusting screw.  Free spool and anti-reverse all working too.  I'm psyched!

I hope there will be no long term effects running without that plastic washer but I think if I keep it clean and greased it will be fine.

One note (question?) about the eccentric cam mechanism (part 19).  To my eye it looks like the cam lift has two identical profiles located 180 degrees apart.  If that's true then reversing the cam part in the holder would make no difference.  It's like if you ever wore out one side you could unscrew it, turn it 180 degrees and you have a new cam surface.   Am I seeing that right?

Thanks for all the help guys.  I feel almost competent again

Tom