DAIWA MAGSEAL VS NON MAGSEAL SPINNING REELS

[jbwilli]

I am new to this board and I am looking for input on the Daiwa Magseal technology. Being an avid fisherman and a retired aviation engineer, the magseal technology grabbed my attention when it was first introduced a few years back. My salt water fishing is mainly wade fishing shallow bays and surf fishing. I fish for the sport of it, and table fare rating is #1 on my list. I target fish in the 2lb to 10 lb range. Catching large trophy fish is not my bag! As a result, I use light gear...light spinning reels in the 2500~3000 size range (small and under 12 ounces).

I soft rinse my reels after every use and overhaul them 1 to 2 times a year (depending upon condition). I have been doing this for years as a non professional reel repair servicer, but I manage pretty well at keeping all my reels functioning for years!

I am always looking for latest technology and this is where Magseal comes in. At first glance, I thought "I have got to have one of those!"
After much research, I now wonder if it is such a great idea. Here are a few of my concerns:

1) I can see where the mag oil will block water intrusion, but I cannot see how it could possible keep fine sand out. On the surf, sand is in the air and eventually introduced by the wind or by being accidentally dropped or pulled down into the sand, from a pulled over sand spike....argh! The mag fluid is "wet" and fine sand adheres to any surface....wet or dry! The sand will simply attach itself and be drawn into the mag oil where is will eventually churn through the seal and into the inside of the compartment or bearing. In all my years of overhauling my salt water reels, sand and salt water crystallization are the #1 culprit to the internal parts. Gulf beach sand is so fine it penetrates even the tiniest of openings!

2) In the light Daiwa spinning reel designs, it appears the only area that is magsealed is the pinion/anti reverse area. I see no magseal bearings on the cross shaft bearings (handle side to cap side)

3) The mag oil is magnetic, but it is not a magnet. It spans from itself to any magnetic parts. How long those parts will remain magnetic is a concern. What is their magnetic strength? If the magnetism weakens, the magseal is lost until those parts are replaced.

4) No help/support from Daiwa (to obtain the mag oil) for us DIYers who want to overhaul their own reels. This is the clincher for me. IMHO, there is no bearing in a fishing reel that does not require routine cleaning, inspection and lubrication...including magsealed!

In the meantime, I will keep on using and repairing my own non~magsealed spinning reels. I do see upgrading to a higher quality ceramic/stainless steel/removable sealed bearings (ex BOCAS) on the main shaft and cross shaft ends. A removable sealed bearing will offer some resistance to water/sand intrusion but, more importantly can be unsealed/cleaned/inspected and re lubricated by the owner!

I welcome any comments on this topic!

[MarkT]

At this point I just say no to magsealed bearings.

[Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B]

At this point I just say no to magsealed bearings.

x2

I have 3 daiwa's with magseal bearings and when it fails i'll replace with regular ball bearings if it "exists". found it too late that the oil is unobtainable from daiwa...

[johndtuttle]

If the replacement fluid was cheap and widely available it might be the greatest thing ever.

$100 for 5ml (if you are a Daiwa service center) is a total deal breaker.

[handi2]

I have seen the oil seal at the pinion gear fail too many times. I say no..

[Porthos]

Magseal...on paper, great idea, "cutting-edge." Actual, real world use...bad execution, "bleeding edge."

Clear case where the tech isn't mature enough and ready for prime time.

[mley1]

I suspect the technology may be cool for guys who don't service their own reels. Over time however, I think it'll flop. Guys spend upwards of several hundred to a thousand dollars or more on a fishing reel they expect it to work, and continue to work for a long time. I have serious doubts that the seals last that long, and once they fail what do fisherman do? If you have to send them in to Diawa, how long will Daiwa service or keep parts for the reels?

On the surface it sounds cool. And, it even looks good. It looks like hey, this is some really cool stuff. It's not for me. I can be a bit rough on my gear, and I like to try and service my reels myself. The ones I'm not comfortable with I take to a local shop. With the magseal stuff neither he nor I can work on the reels and replace the magseal oil. So, I won't be buying any reels like that.

[ReelClean]

I assume everyone has read my treatise on the subject:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=11517.0

Magseal oil in either pinion seal or bearing is a service consumable like any grease or oil.  The only thing that is "sealed for life" is your coffin (hopefully).
Magoil seals such as the pinion and the LRB on '13 Certates are quite easily replaced as I have demonstrated.  I have not had a chance to play with the integrated magsealed bearings yet so I do not know exactly how they are constructed (I have only seen the Daiwa promo videos and such).  I have been told that they are odd sizes when compared to what we are used to in "normal" reels and seem not to be listed by Boca et al, so if the bearing is cactus it may be a genuine replacement job.  Frankly, if the original magseal bearing is still serviceable I can see no reason why one could not just flush and pack it with grease as you would any other bearing.  Read the last posts on the attached link to see what Ferrotec had to say about their ferrofluid as a lubricant.
The APG L11 fluid is the one I selected for Unobtainoil to replace Magseal oil, it seems it may also be satisfactory for lubing the mag bearing, but I would personally prefer grease packed.

cheers
Steve

[BrianBM]

Is it the case that Daiwa is using odd, non-standard bearings in those larger spinning reels (Saltiga, Catalina / Isla, etc.) that can't be readily duplicated with a bearing from Boca, or some other bearing supplier?

Chark is now listing a new range of Saltiga star drag conventional reels in sizes up to 3/0 and larger (this, as of today's "Weekly Specials" page) that also use mag-sealed bearings. Are these reels also using nonstandard bearings?