Andros 12N No free Spool

[Rivverrat]

Well I'm stumped on this one. Fella is leaving this Fri. hoping to take this reel with him.
This 12N has no free spool as soon as the drive side plate is matched up & turned into the frame.  I have installed the handle / drive side from one of my reels & get the same loss of free spool.   I have installed new drag assembly & all associated parts... Only parts I have not changed out are the spool, shaft & frame... Jeff

[Tiddlerbasher]

The standard Andros 12 and A models are fitted with a cast control on the tail plate - don't know about the N model. If fitted make sure its fully backed off (anti-clockwise).

[Rivverrat]

Yup !   I've forgotten to do that so many times it's now, finally become a standard in my process of diagnosing any reel that has it.

[Tiddlerbasher]

Is that 'Yup' that was the problem - or 'Yup' already checked that and there's still no freespool?

[Rivverrat]

SORRY.... It's something I now always check. This wasn't it... Jeff

[Bryan Young]

Do you have free spool when installing the side plate but not the drag adjustment knob?

Do you have free spool with the spool installed but on the drive side plate with no frame?

[Rivverrat]

Bryan, I have free spool with spool installed just on drive side  . No free spool in frame with with or out drag adjustment knob. It is obvious the drag assembly is being compressed. you can feel it.

As simple as it sounds it apparently isn't. To reiterate I've tried completely different drive side assembly,  new drag with with the pinion engagement / pinion guard & the issue remains.

I'm flooded with reel work. I'm happy to have it.   It's hard keeping it all straight when you have reels waiting on parts & other stuff & reels like this one I need to walk away from. At least for a bit & return to it later today

Fella has a better chance leaving with this reel on Friday if I can get it sorted vs sending it to Okuma.... Keep the ideas coming... Jeff       

[Bryan Young]

Do you have any pics of the drag assembly?  The Andros is a pull system...hmm, is the pinion bearing seating all the ways in the side plate?  Is the pinion bearing installed in reverse?  Are the drag pressure plates oriented correctly (the cup portion shall be towards the wavy spring)?

Theses will be the next things I would look at.  Pics would help me think of other causes though.

[Tightlines667]

Is it worse when the reel is tilted to the right?  Or left?  Does it improve with the preset backed all the way off?  

I would get a new set of Bellevilles (since they are all slightly different in terms of thickness), and shims.  Try to determine which of the 3 drag surfaces is contacting, and change the spool spacing appropriately.  More then likely the spool needs to move left slightly (i.e. maybe your Belleville stack has compressed from storing the reel with the lever pushed forward?).  A new set of Bellevilles may solve the issue.  You could test this by simply adding a shim/thrust washer to the belleville stack.  If the problem improves or is fixed, I would still replace the Bellevilles since your shimmed reel with worn spring washers will have a steeper drag curve which could lead to pinion damage/ handle binding at high drag settings.  Another thing to consider would be springs are too worn to push the drag components from the spool.  Another possibility is that the drag discs have worn (0.01" on each would be 0.03" total wear), and you need to shim to make up for lost space.  All 3 (worn springs, Bellevilles, drag discs) could lead to as much as 0.09" wear.  That kinda change in spacing in this type of reel is unacceptable, and will affect functionality.

Another possibility is marring on the shaft or somewhere causing binding, or incorrectly seated/installed parts that lead to not enough space between components. Try to determine if there us too much space, or not enough on the right side of the spool, along the shaft.

These reels have tight tolerances, and steep drag curves with 3 active surfaces.  This means there is little room for parts wear with regards to spacing and the subsequent effect on functionality.

I would look at this as a fun challenge.  Testing subassemblies, and trying different things will teach you how to address this type of issue in many of today's small lever drag reels.

John

[Tiddlerbasher]

Check where the assembled spool shaft inserts into the tail plate - the cross pin must locate correctly otherwise excess pressure is applied to the shaft and drag.

[Rivverrat]

Thanks a lot guys. You all have given me things to look at.

John, the spool spins very free when installed into just the drive side outside of the frame. No variation when tilted. I'll check this again to be certain.  
The bellevilles go on the left side on this reel it being a pull design. Unless I'm not understanding I don't see this being an issue. Let me know If I missed something here. I'm also very tired at the moment... Jeff

[Rivverrat]

Here are pics of drag assembly.

[Rivverrat]

More

[Rivverrat]

Do you have any pics of the drag assembly?  The Andros is a pull system...hmm, is the pinion bearing seating all the ways in the side plate?  Is the pinion bearing installed in reverse?  Are the drag pressure plates oriented correctly (the cup portion shall be towards the wavy spring)?

Theses will be the next things I would look at.  Pics would help me think of other causes though.

BRYAN, correct me if wrong but I dont  believe it matters how the pinion bearing is oriented. The metal plates I have oriented with the raised center facing out on both of them.

[Rivverrat]

More with reverse gear. If you look you how they fit or mesh together.