Penn reel drag washer replacement?

[bluesideup]

Hi all. this is my first post. What a great site.

I have a Penn 650SS that I bought used. I only used it a couple of times and it didn't seem right, so I took off the spool and one or several of the drag washers fell off and ended up in the Cape Cod Canal. I am ordering a new drag kit from Scott's for that one. I also have a 750SS that works fine. Since I'm paying for shipping anyways, I was going to order the whole drag kit for that also, since I use it for heavier fishing and might as well make sure the drag is ok.

I also have a 430SS, 720, 710Z and 712Z-all bought used, that are new to me and seem to work fine. My question is: since I was ordering the kits above, I was wondering if I should order the kits for these reels as well or just order a bunch of HT-100's, since they seem to be needed in most of the reels? Is it usually necessary to replace the whole washer stack or just the felt and teflon washers? I don't want to order a bunch of stuff I don't need, but would just assume get some parts I might need all in one order.

Any advise on what I might need to make sure the drag is ok on these and any tips on how to uninstall/install the washers is appreciated. They reels also seemed to be lubed ok, but any advise in that would also be helpful. I'm sure you figured this out already, but I'm pretty new at reel maintenance.
Thanks,
Bill

[redsetta]

G'day Bill,
Upgrade to greased Carbontex (or HT-100s) wherever possible - you can't go wrong.
The ID/OD and thickness varies according to the reel, so be sure to order according to your requirements.
Bryan's listed Carbontex dimensions here: http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1016.0
It's not usually necessary to change out the whole drag stack, but is on some reels (and when there's damage or wear on the metal washers).
Have a look through Dawn's website, too: http://www.smoothdrag.com/price.html.
There's a wealth of info on Alan's site about drag, so I suggest taking the time to trawl through a few posts/threads.
Here's a couple to get you started: http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=60.0 and http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=47.0.
All the best, Justin

[Norcal Pescador]

X 2 on Justin's post. Speaking for the really old Penn conventionals, they had brass metal washers in their drag stacks, but they're pretty much all stainless steel now. IF you have brass, (doubtful ) in any reel, change them to s/s if you can.

And welcome to the site!!

[Alto Mare]

Hello Bill, welcome aboard. It is a good idea to replace all drags as Justin and Rob mentioned, most come as a kits from mysticparts.com. About that 650SS, you mentioned that it didn't seem right, unfortunatly most of the times it's not just the drags, you will probably need to replace some parts. I purchase many reels from ebay and 99% of them usually need parts, I don't complain about them, I just try to get them at a reasonable price and replace what needs to be replaced. If that is the case with you, no worries, these reels are easy to work on, if you check here under spinning reel tutorial and questions you will find everything you need. Big T has a nice tutorial on the 6500SS for you to follow, I also have a couple, one  is for the  penn 722 that is similar to some of the reels that you have. I'm glad that you like the older Penn, I still use mine today. Get comfortable working on them, we're here to help if needed, we can also show you how to install an additional anti reverse dog on that 650SS so that it won't fail you on that record breaking cow . Enjoy your stay, Sal


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

[bluesideup]

Thank you all for the hel. I've been away for a few days and haven't been able to have the reels with me while I check out your information. Looks like I have some homework to do so I can figure out exactly what I need.
The help is greatly appreciated.
Bill

[bluesideup]

I have a Penn 650SS that I bought used. I only used it a couple of times and it didn't seem right, so I took off the spool and one or several of the drag washers fell off and ended up in the Cape Cod Canal. I am ordering a new drag kit from Scott's for that one. I also have a 750SS that works fine. Since I'm paying for shipping anyways, I was going to order the whole drag kit for that also, since I use it for heavier fishing and might as well make sure the drag is ok.

Just looking at the schematic of of the 650SS and comparing it side by side to the 750SS, I don't see anything missing. I'm not positive I dropped anything in the canal or not. When I first spooled the line (before I thought I dropped a piece), it would not go on evenly. I just tried to spool it again and no matter how hard I tighten the drag, I can easily pull line out and the spool spins.
Does this sound like a missing/bad washer or something else?
Thanks for any ideas.

[Alto Mare]

Your spool is not seated all the way. The easiest way for you to fix the problem is to set the spool in place without the washers, you will then place the drag washers in, making sure that you place them in the right order and the drag knob. That should take care of it.

[bluesideup]

That was it. When I put the 750 back together, I noticed I had the same problem-so I thought it might be something like that, then I saw your post. Boy, do I feel like a moron!
When I thought some of the pieces fell into the canal, my son had just dropped his bait in at exactly the same time I took the spool off to fix a tangle. I assumed I had lost a piece, since it suddenly didn't work when I put it back together.
Hopefully someone else can learn from my lack of knowledge and from the posters on this thread.
Thanks to all. Luckily, I know I little more about my reels now.
I think I will order some extra drag washers for my reels anyway.

On a different note, I have a Penn Surfmaster 250 that I was going to try to use for a little shark fishing next week in Sarasota. I will have to practice casting this, but how does it sound for a reel for this type of thing ( I don't have to cast it far for what I need) and will dacron line help in casting a conventional for someone without much practice (preventing/untangling bird's nests)?

Thanks

[redsetta]

G'day,
It depends if you're referring to the older-style Dacron or 'braided' Dacron.
Traditional Dacron is basically outmoded these days, replaced first by mono-filament nylon, then by braided lines such as Spectra etc.
Its relatively large diameter doesn't lend it to casting, but you're right that it'll be easier to manage in terms of tangles.
If you change over to another line type for your practice sessions, you may find yourself in a spot of bother, ie http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=2513.0.
I reckon just give it a crack and see how you go. Then decide whether nylon or braid will better suit your purposes.
Good luck and have fun!
Justin

[Alto Mare]

On a different note, I have a Penn Surfmaster 250 that I was going to try to use for a little shark fishing next week in Sarasota. I will have to practice casting this, but how does it sound for a reel for this type of thing ( I don't have to cast it far for what I need) and will dacron line help in casting a conventional for someone without much practice (preventing/untangling bird's nests)?

Thanks

Bill, don't feel bad about asking any question, that's what this site is all about. About that 250 Surfmaster, although it is a nice little reel, I don't think that it is well-suited for shark fishing. Here is a link about the types of line that the shark pros like to use, check the second page. http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1792.msg8660#msg8660

[bluesideup]

On a different note, I have a Penn Surfmaster 250 that I was going to try to use for a little shark fishing next week in Sarasota. I will have to practice casting this, but how does it sound for a reel for this type of thing ( I don't have to cast it far for what I need) and will dacron line help in casting a conventional for someone without much practice (preventing/untangling bird's nests)?

Thanks

Bill, don't feel bad about asking any question, that's what this site is all about. About that 250 Surfmaster, although it is a nice little reel, I don't think that it is well-suited for shark fishing. Here is a link about the types of line that the shark pros like to use, check the second page. http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1792.msg8660#msg8660

Ok, thanks.

[alantani]

bill, what's nice about having a thousand dollar inventory of penn drag washers is that you can mix and match and find a perfect set to install into these reels.  here is a list of the dimensions.  http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=21.0  usually, it's #6-60 or a #6-155 drag washer.  you also have the drag washer UNDER the spool.  that one should be replaced as well.  frequently, you can find a drag washer with the proper inside diameter, but the outside diameter is too large.  in that case, the outside diameter of the drag washer can be ground down to a proper fit.  http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=175.0

[bluesideup]

bill, what's nice about having a thousand dollar inventory of penn drag washers is that you can mix and match and find a perfect set to install into these reels.  here is a list of the dimensions.  http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=21.0  usually, it's #6-60 or a #6-155 drag washer.  you also have the drag washer UNDER the spool.  that one should be replaced as well.  frequently, you can find a drag washer with the proper inside diameter, but the outside diameter is too large.  in that case, the outside diameter of the drag washer can be ground down to a proper fit.  http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=175.0

Alan,
I did not check the washer under the spool (rotor washer?) I do have a few extra washers that I can try to mix and match, but maybe I should get a few more. I'm hoping these reels last a while if I keep up with them.
I took apart all of the reels and only had to replace a few drag or thrust washers here and there. I was pretty surprised at the condition of the drag stacks in them, considering they were bought on eBay. They were also well lubed, with the exception of the 430ss (dry as a bone). The 750SS had the drag washers lubed, but the others did not. I'm not sure if they all should be lubed or not or what the difference between "drag" lube and lube you would use on the rest of the reel is.

Which leads to a couple of questions:
I removed the housing cover of the 430SS and greased the gears and pinion. Should I remove the rotor cup and grease the components in there, or should they be ok. I would rather not remove that right now, since I am going to be using it next week (in case a screw something up), but if there are components in there that should be greased, I guarantee they are dry.
I used a marine grease (I had white Berkeley grease that seemed too thick) just to have some kind of grease while I spooled line onto it. It had a similar consistency to auto grease, maybe a little stickier. Does this seem ok, or should I get some Penn grease or something similar? Is there a grease to be had from an auto parts store that would be ok, since a will only use the reels about 15-20 days a year (saltwater)?
Thanks for all of the info. This site is a wealth of knowledge. I'm also trying to mad a Surfmaster 250 and peer 309, which I have gotten some info on.
Bill

[alantani]

i use cal's grease on the drags and yamaha marine grease on all of the other non-exposed metal surfaces.  the penn and daiwa blue greases will also work well.  stick with those if you can, but anything is better than nothing. 

[bluesideup]

Thanks again, Alan.