New Member Questions on Penn Senator 16/0

cstaller · August 12, 2018, 05:19:58 AM

New guy here & mostly new to LBSF but wanted to gear up for more than throw the 14ft surf rode out and catching little fish from land. I love the old school ways but also want to be able to land a beast while being able to do so to limit fight etc. I want to release the beast alive (exception being medium sized black tip = shark nuggets)! I've heard some younger folks saying two speed is the way to go "would have taken me another hour to land on a old Penn 14/0" etc.

I'm looking on ebay currently and see a 16/0 reel but can't tell if it's a one piece spool or not. I didn't see the 16/0 marking in the pics and emailed the guy so he added the 5th pic there and said it was his Dad's reel who was an avid fisherman. I'm wondering if it's worth the money vs. just getting a modern version of the 14/0? I'm also not sure if the modern Avets or like drags and 2 speed are really that better with a reel this size we're still getting line back similar per turn on these large legacy reels so what's the big deal? Maybe harder to crank or they don't like to operate the star drags?

Penn Senator 16/0 big game fishing reel tuna shark trolling classic (seller bbiel26)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Penn-Senator-16-0-big-game-fishing-reel-tuna-shark-trolling-classic/382539322212?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D52935%26meid%3Dbe314215f9304b0093c8c5e414f6b440%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D113196116055%26itm%3D382539322212&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

Should I ask the guy to take that line off and send a pic of the spool? Also, for curiosity there is another on ebay right now with the red handle and the old broomstick pole that looks just like in the Jaws movie. Cool, wonder what that rod is worth alone? Lake City printed on the tip.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/113196116055?_trksid=p2471758.m4703

Thnks,
/curt
Round Rock, TX

Shark Hunter · August 12, 2018, 05:38:28 AM

First of all,
Welcome to our great site Curt
I have been in LBSF for many years.
If I were a betting man, I would say the first reel is a one piece spool and the second a two piece.
I would not buy it if I couldn't see to be sure.
Secondly, I totally agree with your anology of old school.
I only shark fish with Senators or Everol's.
You won't have to worry about replacing bearings with a Senator.
You just have to Crank.
The 12 and 14/0 are my normal choice of weapons.
You need anything. Just let me know,
Daron

oc1 · August 12, 2018, 10:15:05 AM

Think about the diameter and length of the line required before selecting a reel. Senators were originally designed for a different generation of lines. When they first came out, the 16/0 would hold about a quarter mile of 54 thread linen line. Three decades later the same reel would hold about a half mile of braided nylon or monofilament with the same strength. Presently, the same reel will hold about 1.2 miles of braided spectra with the same strength. So, a 9/0 can now do everything that a 16/0 used to do.... and the fish have not gotten any larger.

Oh, and in the movie the 16/0 was on a beautiful 54 thread Fenwich with Mildrums that looked like they had never been used. It was weird that they made everything on the boat look old and crusty except the rod and reel.
-steve

Alto Mare · August 12, 2018, 10:32:12 AM

Quote from: cstaller on August 12, 2018, 05:19:58 AM

Should I ask the guy to take that line off and send a pic of the spool? Also, for curiosity there is another on ebay right now with the red handle and the old broomstick pole that looks just like in the Jaws movie. Cool, wonder what that rod is worth alone? Lake City printed on the tip.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/113196116055?_trksid=p2471758.m4703

Thnks,
/curt
Round Rock, TX

Hello Curt, on your question above...I would!

The seller is already making false statement on the rod, that rod don't even come close to the one Quimnt was using.
Not that it matters, but he should tell it like it is.

Quote from: oc1 on August 12, 2018, 10:15:05 AM
Think about the diameter and length of the line required before selecting a reel. Senators were originally designed for a different generation of lines. When they first came out, the 16/0 would hold about a quarter mile of 54 thread linen line. Three decades later the same reel would hold about a half mile of braided nylon or monofilament with the same strength. Presently, the same reel will hold about 1.2 miles of braided spectra with the same strength. So, a 9/0 can now do everything that a 16/0 used to do.... and the fish have not gotten any larger.

-steve

The 9/0 is a different animal when compared to the 16/0 Steve, it's not just about line capacity.
The new frame does share the same seat as the custom 6/0 and 9/0 though.

Sal

oc1 · August 12, 2018, 10:40:46 AM

Sal, do you think a stand-up rod with a stock 9/0 locked down could snatch you off your feet or drag you into the surf?

-steve

Alto Mare · August 12, 2018, 10:51:57 AM

Quote from: oc1 on August 12, 2018, 10:40:46 AM
Sal, do you think a stand-up rod with a stock 9/0 locked down could snatch you off your feet or drag you into the surf?
-steve

No! I always carry a knife by my side when fishing

Alto Mare · August 12, 2018, 11:05:27 AM

Sorry Curt I got the two sellers mixed up.
You could always ask for the seller to take the line down, but if he says no it's inderstandable.
I personally wouldn't be concerned about being a three piece spool on the first one you're showing, but not so sure on the one with the red handle.

1badf350 · August 12, 2018, 01:25:08 PM

If you want to fish the reel go for the first one.

Swami805 · August 12, 2018, 01:34:01 PM

The first on looks like a better bet, likely the 2nd one is in the same condition as the rod which isn't good.

foakes · August 12, 2018, 01:37:51 PM

Welcome aboard, Curt!

Best,

Fred

oc1 · August 12, 2018, 08:12:28 PM

I can't argue with the reel experts about the first one being better for fishing, but still contend that you do not need that behemoth reel just to catch a big shark from the beach.

But, wow, that second one has the mother load of linen line (if someone were petty enough to be interested in such a thing). The line is probably rotten to the core now, but it could be washed, dried and used for display. The second reel is older if I'm not mistaken. The reel seat and handle look very well made and would clean up nicely. Is that an old Varmac or something else? The rod blank is black and round which is curious. By the time Harnell started making fiberglass blanks the linen line would have been obsolete and replaced by braided nylon or braided Dacron. If the blank were double-built bamboo it would be hexagonal. If it were hardwood it would have spar varnish, not black paint. Whatever it is, it would be a fun restoration project.

On another subject, it seems that Alan or the Ohana have decided to ignore the rule about not posting ebay links. Correct??

-steve

Swami805 · August 13, 2018, 01:27:24 AM

He is looking for something to fish but that would make a great restoration project. The linen line would be a bonus on the reel. The reel seat/butt is an interesting setup, curious what kind it is.

oc1 · August 13, 2018, 01:29:56 AM

.... but I was wondering Sal...... A 16/0 pulling 35 pounds of drag with a full spool diameter of about 6 inches would be creating about (0.5 ft x 35 lb =) 17.5 foot-pounds of work or energy at the spool shaft (like a torque wrench). A 9/0 pulling 35 pounds of drag with a full spool diameter of about 3.5 inches would be creating about (0.3 ft x 35 lb =) 10.6 foot-pounds of work or energy at the spool shaft. The 16/0 has a beefier frame and guts than the 9/0. You know about this stuff while I have no clue. But since the 9/0 has to do less work (or has less energy being created by a running fish) isn't it possible that the 9/0 and 16/0 could have similar resistance to, say..., stripping the gears or blowing up in your face or whatever ??

-steve

alantani · August 13, 2018, 04:54:07 AM

curt, welcome! you're in good hands with these guys!

Alto Mare · August 16, 2018, 08:27:55 PM

Quote from: oc1 on August 13, 2018, 01:29:56 AM
.... but I was wondering Sal...... A 16/0 pulling 35 pounds of drag with a full spool diameter of about 6 inches would be creating about (0.5 ft x 35 lb =) 17.5 foot-pounds of work or energy at the spool shaft (like a torque wrench). A 9/0 pulling 35 pounds of drag with a full spool diameter of about 3.5 inches would be creating about (0.3 ft x 35 lb =) 10.6 foot-pounds of work or energy at the spool shaft. The 16/0 has a beefier frame and guts than the 9/0. You know about this stuff while I have no clue. But since the 9/0 has to do less work (or has less energy being created by a running fish) isn't it possible that the 9/0 and 16/0 could have similar resistance to, say..., stripping the gears or blowing up in your face or whatever ??

-steve

Steve, this has already been talked about a while back. I got a headache then and I'm just about getting another now

.
Penn were well ahead of their time, most of their Senator reels from the 113H to the 16/0 retrieve the same amount of line per crank, no matter how large or small the spool is.
That number is around 30" per crank on a full rotation with the handle. What does this mean? to me it means that the 9/0 is working harder than the 16/0.
The 16/0 is retriving the same 30" of line per crank, but its doing it without breaking a sweat. The pinion on the 16/0 rotates 1 1/2 time, the 9/0 has to go one more rotation of the pinion to keep up with the 16/0. Therefore, the 9/0 works harder than the 16/0.
On the larger Senators. as the spool gets larger, so does the spool shaft, gears and everything else.

Some are going wide on these huge reels, to me it would be a better option to squish them and make them one or two inches taller...that would be a killer reel...just my opinion.

Sal