Pinion Blow Up

[Lunker Larry]

Muskie guys are hard on their reels. I see all sorts of things that make me shake my head but this is the first time I've seen this.
Sheared the skirt off the bottom of the pinion. Bent and broke a post off the spool shaft and somehow popped the clicker ratchet gear and e-clip off.
This is from an older Shimano TE. Had the spool on the left to show the owner the difference on the spool shaft pin.

[Cor]

I wonder how you do that?

A locked down drag and then .....
I think a hard cast with a heavy lure/sinker, 80lb braid and then the reel accidentally goes into gear after 1 second in to the cast.

I'd love to hear the proper story.

[Gfish]

Coool!

[Lunker Larry]

I wonder how you do that?

A locked down drag and then .....
I think a hard cast with a heavy lure/sinker, 80lb braid and then the reel accidentally goes into gear after 1 second in to the cast.

I'd love to hear the proper story.

Exactly!

[Cor]

I wonder how you do that?

A locked down drag and then .....
I think a hard cast with a heavy lure/sinker, 80lb braid and then the reel accidentally goes into gear after 1 second in to the cast.

I'd love to hear the proper story.

Exactly!

hahaha, i've done it a couple of times but not with such serious results.    I now immediately remove the automatic engaging mechanism on any such reels I may own, they are lethal and result not only in broken reels but lost lures and broken line.

Thanks for info!

[jurelometer]

I don't know why the designs don't include a freespool locking mechanism on the bigger levelwinds.  I remember seeing a post somewhere for a homemade locking mechanism for Ambassadors.  I think it was just a matter of cutting a slot in the sideplate.

The ideal design would have a two stage freespool, so there was an also option for non-locking freespool.   I would like to have a locking freespool for distance casting, and a non locking for short lobs and drop jigging.  I am curious if there is a way to do this as an aftermarket customization.

I wonder if these muskie guys are turning the handle to stop a cast in progress.  The saltwater guys that also cast big lures don't seem to blow up the same models as much.   The difference I see is that the muskie guys are casting to cover and don't want to overshoot.  The saltwater guys are more often just hucking it out there. 

-J

[Donnyboat]

The high ratio reels have a very small pinion, something has to give, that is mostly the pinion, thats why I prefer a ratio of about 4.8, any higher, you will aventually run into throuble, use the rod to do most of the jigging, rather than the reel, cheers Don.

[jurelometer]

The high ratio reels have a very small pinion, something has to give, that is mostly the pinion, thats why I prefer a ratio of about 4.8, any higher, you will aventually run into throuble, use the rod to do most of the jigging, rather than the reel, cheers Don.

Hi Don,

If the jig gets bit on the  drop or hits bottom, it is nice to turn the handle to put the reel in gear. It shortens the time from free spool to winding.  This can make a big difference  sometimes.  I wouldn't expect this to be as big a problem as the reel going into gear on a cast.

With the classic west coast (USA) irons and the new slow pitch style jigs, winding is an important part of working the jig.  These jigs are usually not fished with just the short lift and drop.

But I do agree that it is better to be as easy as possible on these types of reels.  I think that they could be built to be more robust.

-J

[Cor]

The high ratio reels have a very small pinion, something has to give, that is mostly the pinion, thats why I prefer a ratio of about 4.8, any higher, you will aventually run into throuble, use the rod to do most of the jigging, rather than the reel, cheers Don.

Hi Don,

.................
But I do agree that it is better to be as easy as possible on these types of reels.  I think that they could be built to be more robust.

-J

I cast jigs of 3 - 4 oz for about 100 yds and that generates a lot of momentum and speed in the spool.

I doubt if they could make a reel robust enough not to break from a pinion trying to engage itself under that kind of situation,  probably won't happen in one occasion, but a few times will for sure eventually result in serious damage.

I quickly found it unavoidable when I first acquired such a reel.    Every now and then my front arm would touch the handle followed by a horrible breaking noise.  ( nothing ever broke like the above picture though)   The occurrence was much greater when making sudden quick casts at fish that were very close.   With deliberate normal casts, this happened seldom, but "seldom" may be 1/500 casts, still too much risk to break a reel, line and loose terminal tackle.

Important..... If you're trying to picture in your mind how this happens, bear in mind we fish with our reels situated at the rear of the rod, which naturally brings the front forearm in close proximity to handle of the reel!   I attach a poor quality photo to illustrate!

[alantani]

Muskie guys are hard on their reels. I see all sorts of things that make me shake my head but this is the first time I've seen this.
Sheared the skirt off the bottom of the pinion. Bent and broke a post off the spool shaft and somehow popped the clicker ratchet gear and e-clip off.
This is from an older Shimano TE. Had the spool on the left to show the owner the difference on the spool shaft pin.

larry, do you have a part number?

[Lunker Larry]

Hi Alan. As you probably suspected the reel is not supported anymore by Shimano and it did not have the part. I found a repair depot that still had 2 pinions on inventory so no issues there. I cut the bent shaft pin and popped it out, replacing it with the one out of the spool on the left. Also had to file and buff the pinion race (proper term?) as it was chewed up. Reel is pretty darn smooth now and should last him a long time if he doesn't do it again. Older TE parts are getting almost impossible to find, especially the drive shafts.

[Donnyboat]

Jerlometer, thanks for you eccement, I use multi colour jigging braid, that give me some idea how much line I have in the water.
  sounds good Larry looks like your on top of it, happy fishing man, cheers Don.

[Porthos]

If the pinion is not hobbed (i.e., without the ring) then fishing "high" drag on these smaller reels will eventually result in failure...most likely regardless of brand or reel model. Split a 13-155 pinion after one season.

[jurelometer]

If the pinion is not hobbed (i.e., without the ring) then fishing "high" drag on these smaller reels will eventually result in failure...most likely regardless of brand or reel model. Split a 13-155 pinion after one season.

Maybe...

But I think it depends on the pinion/shaft junction design.   The rings do help a little.

The main problem is the amount of force that a cast generates.   If the reel can  go into gear accidentally when there is enough force to snap 80 lb braid, the force generated is beyond what most small reels can handle in the yoke system.   Something in the reel is going to break.  If not the pinon, then something else.   With a classic conventional reel, it is highly unlikely that the the reel will accidentally go into gear during a cast.  But levelwinds that engage via turning the handles... well that is a different story.     As Cor mentioned, all you have to do is bump the handle.   I have done this a couple times myself.  The reel made a scary grinding noise.  I will take it apart this winter and assess the damage. 

The new "stronger" levelwind designs have beefed up some of the components- but the yoke system blowing up from an accidentally aborted cast is still a issue.  It looks to me like the manufacturers made an effort on making the handle rotation stiffer while  in freespool, but I think this was not enough.  They should have provided some sort of locking mechanism.

I think this is the problem that Larry is seeing.  A pinion ring is not going to solve the problem IMHO. Larry is also seeing broken yokes.

-J

[Cor]

If the pinion is not hobbed (i.e., without the ring) then fishing "high" drag on these smaller reels will eventually result in failure...most likely regardless of brand or reel model. Split a 13-155 pinion after one season.

I think the same as jurelometer.

In my experience those rings that are supposed to strengthen the pinion do help, but in most situations they just fall off from the pinion after some time and here I am not thinking of "self engaging reels" as under discussion.