Is there any reason for > 50# gear for standup marlin fishing

[Reinaard van der Vossen]

Well, I'm thinking of purchasing gear (again) and this tiem I'm thinking of a short stand-up marlin rod. Now marlin's where I fish are rare but big (not so many are caught but they can be heavy)

The reel to go with that should of course match the type of fishing that is targeted and I looked at as much information as I could find but are still al little in doubt. I noticed that Dennis Braid (from braid tackle, http://www.braidproducts.com/ ) and mr. Killsong (see youtube, ) are using 80 pond gear when fishing giant tuna's but someone like Marscha Biermann has fished 50# gear on big marlin extremely succesfully.

On one hand I'm worried about being underpowered but I looked at the drags that can be had from the modern 50# reel and think that I should not be worried as I would not be able to hold those maximum drags anyway (for a signficant duration)

If I look at some 50# reel drags:
strike drag ------ max drag ---- name
?-----------------55#----------Omoto Poseidon S- 50-II
60#                    85#----------Okuma Makaira 50
37#--------------55#----------Okuma makaira 30
50#--------------57#----------Avet 50 Wide
100(110)---------110#---------Avet Trx 50 (trxw50)
45#--------------?-------------Penn International 50 VSX
30#--------------?-------------Penn Int. 50VSW
50#-------------->scale--------Tiburon SST50T
35#--------------44#----------Shimano Tiagra 50WLRSA
Accurate ATD platimum 50W I could not find the exact numbers but I know they are high as well and the same applies to the Fin Nor Santiago

Looking at the above drags I would not even need a top drag 50 class reel and most of the 50 class reels would need a significant stronger rod


The 500# marlin that my friend caught last year on 130# chair gear was used probably with less than 35# of drag

As I am not yet an extremely seasoned big game angler I would value your opinions

[Keta]

I have little experience with marlin, only one stripped but from 21' boat we towed to the Sea of Cortez (close to 2000 miles).  I have seen several cow YFT caught on 30's from larger boats that would not chase the fish, I think the largest was over 275lbs.  If you spool a modern 30 with 80lb Spectra and can chase the fish you should be able to bring a 500lb or much larger fish to the boat.  With a modern 50 AND Spectra line I think you will have all the reel you need.  

FYI, most reel manufactures fudge a bit on their published drag numbers.


My largest YFT so far @ 258lb caught with a Avet SDS, a narrow 50.

[alantani]

reinaard, how much line and how much drag do you need for these fish?

[Reinaard van der Vossen]

Alan,

I would like in excess of 800 yards of line on the spool which means that the largest part will be spectra backing with a mono topshot. I'm not so sure abouth the drag. Fish have been caught in excess of 1200 lb but they are rare. I think that the average "large" marlin is 600+ lb. The marlin that we caught last year was just under 500lb and I think the drag was in the range of 35lb but on a very heavy chair outfit (130lb IGFA Penn rod and Tiagra 130 reel)

[alantani]

i would rather fight a fish with stand up gear and 35 pounds of drag than in a fighting chair.  with stand up gear, you can lean your whole body against the rod.  with a fighting chair, it's just your back.  did that once and hated it.  

i could easily see a 50-class reel (penn 50 vsx, tiagra 50, accurate 50, avet 50 or makaira 50) with 800 yards of 100# spectra and 35 pounds of drag.  

[Reinaard van der Vossen]

Yeah, I think so too.

I basically partly answered my own question with the stated drag numbers of most 50 class reels but as my experience is limited (and as I'm a carefull guy )

What I do not know is how the stated drag are working out in real life. My guess is that even when the stated max drags are exagerated I still would have sufficient spare drag to turn the drag up a notch when the fish needs turning and to prevent being spooled (which can go quickly when the fish runs at 60 mph)

Also I have no idea what kind of heat will be developped by the drag in a good fight. Will the heat dissipation be sufficient in a 50 class reel or does the thing can go red hot   

[redsetta]

My largest YFT so far @ 258lb caught with a Avet SDS, a narrow 50.

Nice fish Keta - well done.

[alantani]

Also I have no idea what kind of heat will be developped by the drag in a good fight. Will the heat dissipation be sufficient in a 50 class reel or does the thing can go red hot   

you should be fine.......

[Patudo]

This is a question with some quite complex answers. You may not require a lot of drag to catch the fish depending on how it behaves.  A fish that stays close to the surface and jumps a lot will test your skipper's boat handling skills if it changes direction radically but may not need a lot of drag: many skippers will caution you against applying too much drag on a fast running/jumping fish as it can pull the hook or break the line.  Heavy drag is used to raise a fish that has gone deep, or gotten tailwrapped. 

The situation you face in GC and the other islands also complicates matters because you could hook a fish from 200 to over 600 lbs. Catching the larger fish can be quite difficult on lighter gear. The ideal situation for lighter gear in this fishery is to use it for pitch baiting where you only put it out after you have raised a fish of suitable size. 

My own experience is that moving around the cockpit freely becomes difficult once the drag exceeds around 25 lbs; once it gets over 32 lb, every move must be planned carefully.  (I am about 1.78m and 82kg: heavier or more athletic anglers can probably brace themselves against heavier drag.)  Most situations requiring heavy drag fortunately do not require you to move around the cockpit quickly at the same time - but every now and then you will be unlucky (or lucky) enough to hook into a fish that is the exception.  I prefer to have about 28 lbs at the strike button and ideally about 38 to 40 lbs at full for stand up fishing with 80 lb line.  80 lb line is very much preferred to 50 lb as it is much more durable and the margin of error much greater. 

I have only used the Tiagra 50WLRS which would be my preferred choice, the Penn 70VS and the Penn50VSW. The 50VSW can be set at 28 to 30 lbs at the button but you will have a substantial amount of drag as soon as you move the lever above freespool. The lever position at my preferred trolling drag setting ended up dangerously close to freespool. The 50VSX probably has a greater drag range and would be more suited to fishing 80 lb line.  The 70VS is fine.  Many factory stand up rods are indeed too light

The harness and belt setup is just as important as the rod and reel.  The most effective setup for me is the Black Magic. 

[locknut]

Gidday from New Zealand. Catching large Marlin on stand up tackle is an exercise in eliminating to near zero all the possible things that can go wrong including the angler, tackle and boat. Marlin are lost in the most incredable ways. Using 37kg tackle will reduce the risk of some of these problems. However the flip or down side to this heavy tackle and heavy drags is manoeuvrability and strain on the angler. Using a reel loaded with braid will help with the weight of the gear however unless you have used lighter gear and worked up to 37kg you might not be able to make use of the drag you have available.  12kg at strike and 18-20 kg marked on the reel to go up to when the fish has quietened down would be the usual set up but 18kg of drag is very hard work and moving around becomes difficult. You might on the other hand be better to get a 24kg outfit that will handle most fish you come across, mark the drag settings on the side, practice with on smaller fish and if the big one comes along well you will have a fighting chance. Many large fish are taken on lighter tackle however many more are lost. The big fish taken on lighter tackle are usually a result of well prepared gear and an angler who knows how to use it backed by a brilliant crew. Don't get hung up on how much drag a reel can produce at peak, be more concerned about your abilities as an angler using gear that is well looked after that you trust and know how to use. Good luck out on the water

[Dominick]

Reinaard, Locknut is right on.  That is good advice.  I have a Penn International 50 vsw that is loaded with 130lb Jerry Brown hollow core.  It works great and it has my vote.  I am a Penn guy so I have not experience with the other reels.  Dominick

[Jeri]

Hi All ,

I would tend to wholeheartedly agree with 'Locknut', that angler skill, and the skill of the support crew are what defeat most Marlin, though the example I quote below, is not a recommendation.

Prior to becoming a certifiable surf fishing nut, I used to do a lot of stand-up line class fishing, and the biggest component to all that was to be very conscious of balancing the tackle to the line, and then using it in the appropriate way. An example would be 10kg tackle, used with 4kg drag, the rod and reel need to be able to dead lift 4kg off the floor – if that is your desired fighting weight. The point being that for bigger game species you are going to need to sustain that pressure over a protracted period, so getting a rod, reel and line set up that offers 10kg or 15kg or more for your sustained pressure – are you capable of holding that pressure for 2 hours or more?

So, my advice would be to avoid going to the really heavier end of the scale with your tackle thoughts, look to balance the rod to the reel, to the line, and be realistic about what sorts of pressure, you can personally sustain over a long period of time.

This is from a person that is 70kgs soaking wet, but landed a 220kg Blue Marlin on 10kg stand-up – the reel was an International 16 - two speed, with 300m of 10kg braid and 300m of 10kg nylon, the rod was a personal design to dead lift 4kgs, and the fight lasted 1hour and 45 minutes.

If, I had to do it again, I would have preferred a 15kg set up with a dead lift of about 6kgs, it would have made life easier, and possibly the fight shorter, but wouldn't have hampered my movement around the boat in a lively sea.

We see this problem of 'over gunning' a lot in our custom rod shop, with guys looking for rods for big sharks. They want something that is so stiff that they can dead lift huge weights, then when you get them to test something like they are looking at - they can barely pull it round, let alone sustain the full fighting curve – avoid being 'over gunned' – it is a time to be very honest with yourself when choosing 'heavy' tackle.

Hope that all make sense.

Cheers from sunny Africa

Jeri

[UKChris]

I have been fortunate in catching some nice blue marlin on stand-up gear with the bait-and-switch technique, including a 450lb followed 10 minutes later by a 600lb, and that was after a 250 earlier in the morning. Stiff as a board next day !!

The reel I have use most for stand-up is the Tiagra 50W and drag settings are rarely above 17-24lb. If this works don't go beyond these drag settings - there is an element of care needed on a pitching deck when fishing heavy drags. The 600lb needed full drag (lots) plus thumbs to raise her when she went deep, but you can see the tension on the line by looking at the rod bend - one reason for not over-gunning in the rod stiffness arena. You make a good point Jeri - as they say, nothing ever goes wrong in the first hour! Can you sustain that loading for more than five minutes let alone two hours?

Normally I used 80lb dacron for 2/3 capacity and a top-shot of 80lb nylon but I have had 500lb + fish on 50lb dacron plus mono topshot on the same 50W Tiagra. Line wear is a significant concern and I was glad to see the leader grabbed! The LRS version is not necessary but if that is what you have it is perfectly OK.

I have fished the Tiagra 80W stand-up with 80lb line and the problem is reel wobble, weight, sperading the line and general feeling that the rel is taking you round the deck not the other way round. It is a big old reel to cart around. It is a set-up kept in reserve in case a bigger fish turns up, but although I have used it, the 50W has been the most successful for stand-up.

So, a 50W is great - brand according to what floats your boat - 80W is OK but not easy to manoevre and the 30W is too small even tricked out - well in my opinion anyway. This was in a fishery where some boats catch over 100 blue marlin in a 3-month season with hardly a day ashore, so the gear takes some punishment from ham-fisted anglers! Amazing the crews keep it all in such good condition.

[kamuwela]

tiagra 50wlrsa would be my choice. i have  a couple of friends that stand up and have raised their fair share of fish with these reels. i  troll and use 130's and fight from the gunnel but i also have 2 50's just in case i feel like giving the fish half a chance.