First hickup on rebuilding penn 309

[zward]

Hey all, I got the parts from penn parts yesterday to rebuild my penn 309. I'm in the process of doing 2 209's and 2 309's. This first one was the only non functional reel of the bunch. Levelwind assembly was shut so that was replaced, and after looking one of the teeth on the pinion gear was sheared half way of so that was replaced. The drive gear looked alright (drive and pinion both stainless). Also put in new HT-100 drag washers and fiber washer under the drive gear. I put it all back together last night and everything seemed to actuate fine on the handle assembly side (pinion moves in and out when the eccentric lever is actuated), however it seems to reel 'rough' so to speak. I think I know whats going on but though I might get some expert opinion while I'm stuck at 'work'. Seems like the HT-100 drag washers are thicker than the ones in previously (didnt have a caliper on me so just eyeballed it), is it common to have to adjust for this? and will a drag stack to thick usually cause this? Also I was wondering when you guys replace a gear, do you usually replace the drive and pinion as a set? (so they both have the same amount of wear etc..)

Thanks for the help!
Zane

[Irish Jigger]

 I agree with Alan who always recommends replacing both gears as a "set."

Before reassembling the reel I sometimes fit all the parts to the bridge ie washer, main gear, drag washers, spring washer,spacing sleeve, star drag (fully tightened to compress drag washers) and handle secured with its  screw-handle (23-60.)

Backing off the star drag will indicate if the spacing sleeve needs adjusting for clearance.

[Keta]

Gears wear as a set and the pinion goes out faster than the main gear, if they are made of the same material.  I replace gears as sets.

[Norcal Pescador]

In addition to replacing the gears as a set, you could try leaving off the belleville washer. If that helps, either leave the belleville off or put it back in with a shorter spacing sleeve (or yours that you filed down). Lay the file flat on the work surface and drag the sleeve across the file. Your washer thickness should be fine.
Did you lube the worm gear with your favorite light oil? What shape were the metal drag washers in?

[alantani]

yeah, the pinion gear is hardened stainless.  the main gear is either softer plain steel or even softer manganese/bronze alloy.  gotta replace both at the same time.  it is possible now that the old main gear has already damaged the new pinion.  hopefully not .....   

[Jimmer]

Did you find the broken off gear tooth? I'd take an good look for it. Don't need any extra pieces in there - could wreak all sorts of havoc.

[zward]

Thanks for the replies! When I had the side plate together, as the star drag was loosened or the screws going through the side plate into the holder are backed off, the 'roughness' diminishes, which makes it seems like the drage washers part of the issue.

On the pinion gear, I should clarefy that the tooth sheared off length wise in the notched portion, and didnt see any sign of the fragment. By the looks it happened some time ago. I'll just probably buy a whole new gear set to be safe, spending 5 bucks on shipping the drive gear might as well spend 5 bucks on another pinion gear. These reels are all my grandpas old reels so thats the main reason for rebuilding them, think I've already spent much more than they're worth on non essential parts (got new chrome over brass side rings and posts, the old ones had most of the chrome wore off).

About the metal drag washers, they look like brass/copper and have some tarnish but look ok.. Would new stainless ones help much(performance wise)? I'll take a caliper to the drage stack tonight, not sure how much but the new drag washers are definitely thicker than the old ones.

Thanks a bunch guys this is great. I now have 6 of these old reels torn apart in various plastic bowls and plates... Keeping everything together seems like half the battle!

[Norcal Pescador]

It sounds like it could be binding from 10 pounds of stuff in a nine pound bag.   Are the bridge screws in real tight or comfortably tight? You may have to leave out the belleville washer and shorten the spacing sleeve if the drag stack is too tall. Smoothdrag should have thinner carbon-fiber drag washers that may help.

The s/s metal washers are really nice to have and may or may not be thinner than the originals but that's up to you. Do you have some wet/dry sandpaper or some crocus cloth? Lay a piece out on the workbench and slide the washer around on it with your finger tip until it's polished up and there's no tarnish or other crud left on it. Reassemble it and try again.  

That's what is so much 'fun' about this stuff. Spend a lot of money buying an assortment of parts that may not help or slogging it out, one thing at a time.

[Irish Jigger]

That's what is so much 'fun' about this stuff. Spend a lot of money buying an assortment of parts that may not help or slogging it out, one thing at a time.

How very true. Built a 112H from parts once,rewarding but very expensive.

[Keta]

                 "I should clarefy that the tooth sheared off length wise in the notched portion, and didnt see any sign of the fragment."

If the broken piece came from under the reinforcing ring the gear should be usable, unless the tooth went around the gears and damaged them. 

                 "think I've already spent much more than they're worth on non essential parts (got new chrome over brass side rings and posts,
                      the old ones had most of the chrome wore off). "

You aren't the only one that has far more invested in parts than the reel can be sold for but I prefer to not sell my fishing gear and firearms.

                  "Would new stainless ones help much(performance wise)? "

I don't know if it matters but I replace the old brass washers with SS ones when I upgrade a reels drag.

                   "Keeping everything together seems like half the battle!"

Eventually the pile of parts will become recognizable.

[zward]

Well got all the parts, the new drive and pinion gear worked like a charm. After this and replacing the levelwind gear (white plastic one) she's good as new. I've also added greased carbon fiber washers on this one and the other 309 and 209's. They should be catching grouper in the gulf in a couple of weeks. Thanks again for all the help!

Next on the docket is a pair of shimano triton 200GT's, charter special's and fixing the bent spool shaft on the Triton 300. The pile of parts is slowly coming together!

-Zane

[akfish]

Remember that the 309 is, at most, a 30# reel. If you push the drag harder than about 8#, you'll have a world of trouble... Is that enough drag for grouper??

[zward]

Unfortunately for the ones we usually get yeah, these reels are plenty. Inside 30 miles most of them are red grouper, biggest usually 10-15lbs.  Once you start getting into the 25lb+ gags and blacks thats a different story, than the gear gets a little heavier.. Usually I'll try to fish as light as I can, pulling in a 7lb grouper on a broomstick and tld 20 isnt nearly as fun as a 209 on a 20-30lb ugly stick