Number of guides on a rod

[jurelometer]

As mentioned above, I would strongly encourage taking a look at this thread:

https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=30033.30

What we are discussing here was covered in that thread in greater detail, with lots of contributions from our rod builders. Bryan's guide spacing method  is in that thread.

If you don't  require the rod to load completely, even some pretty crappy guide count/placement will work pretty well, especially with a spinning rod.  That is why that guy in the striper video is happy with his four guide spinner.  Many of us have fished a rod missing a middle guide, and if the situation is not too demanding, the effect is often not that noticeable. 

A  limited number of guides changes how the blank loads.  To make  an extreme example, if you only had two guides on the rod and locked down the drag, the load is going to pull the guides  toward each other, concentrating the load at the apex of the curve between the guides on the underside of the blank (the glass is less able to compress than elongate.  Since the bottom won't compress, the  blank deforms with the sides swelling out, eventually failing).  If your broken rod warranty claim is rejected because of high sticking, it is probably because the factory/builder observed this type of breakage at the apex between the seat and first guide, or the apex between two guides.

  Change the positioning of the two guides, and you change the point where the load concentrates.  Add more guides, and you add more points to distribute the load. Position the guides well and you will have less acute angles where the line passes through the guides, which (I think) means that there will be less force pulling the guides toward each other.  And so on.

Have rod/rod blank manufacturers used high resolution videography to determine guide spacing? Especially for spinning rods where the line comes off in spirals? Rod blank manufacturers could have different recommendations for different guide types.

Not  a rod company, but Fuji did exactly this to promote their new guide system. See Dominick's  post # 37 in the thread mentioned above.   Some exaggerations, and goofy marketing hooey, but eventually demonstrating that small ring size starting far away from the  blank, then fairly rapidly dropping down to lots of  small rings close to the blank limited line slap when very stiff  line is pulled off the reel by some sort of high speed line yanker/winder.  Might work in real life too 


-J

[steelfish]

I love this kind of threads  

last year I restored a short surf rod 7ft that have some broken guides, installed some Ti pacbay guides and my personal touch, but I was also debating on how many guides to wrap on it.

https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=28392.0

....after some reseach this were my comments..

I got this brand new rod for cheap cuz it had 2 broken guides and the tip, its a Tica UMGA 7ft surf Spinning rod, I was going to install some matching guides and sell it but I look at my rod rack and noticed that I NEEDED a surf rod (yep, really!! ), ...............

in another thread I was mentioning that before wrapping this rod I did a static test on it and seemed that it might need another guide at least to have a better flow on the line when pulling or lifting 15lb from the ground, but after reading some of the professinal tips from Jeri (our surf fishing expert and rod builder) I opted to leave the rod with the stock 5 guides to have a minimal stiff joints by the guide/thread/epoxy and let the blank do its work on the fish, this rod is MH in action and it will work any fish from 1-6# really nice by itself, the less guides will also help to cast better, hopefully I could test it soon with a fish.

so, far the rod have worked flawlessly catching 3-4# triggers from the beach and other small fishes and love how the blank "works" the fish by itself all you have to to is to hold the rod in your hands steady and the blank will move up and down while the fish fight until is tired, I've taken it also for inshore fishing on boat and it worked great for bit bigger fishes as spanish macks, by now is my preferred rod for catch bait

[reelrepair123]

with all the different blanks, fast taper, this taper, that taper, there is no rule of thumb in my belief, i liked riverrats picture,  if i built a rod with a blank i never used before, i would put the finished blank with the reel seat in a tube held in a vise, reel mounted and run the line thru the tip, other guides loseley floating on the line, i would attach a large weight to the end of  line,   i would  then crank the line in some on the reel putting a bend on the blank, then i would slide the guides into  position , tape them down , so the line would run thru the guides and not lay, or rub on the blank, this way the line is bridged evenly . just my way of guide spacing.   harryk

[JasonGotaProblem]

This thread keeps getting better. It's amazing how many fish a fella can catch despite not having the slightest clue how the gear works or why it's designed the way it is.

I've caught fish with some remarkably busted rods. Blind squirrel principle it seems.

[Bryan Young]

This thread keeps getting better. It's amazing how many fish a fella can catch despite not having the slightest clue how the gear works or why it's designed the way it is.

I've caught fish with some remarkably busted rods. Blind squirrel principle it seems.

You said it..."BUSTED" rods.

None of my custom rods, like I had mentioned, have never gotten busted when fighting a fish.

If you buy the components for a rod that cost $400, wouldn't you want to wrap it so it does not get "BUSTED" fighting a fish?  If you don't have a problem with it, then buy an OTS rod with a good warrentee and call it a day.

[JasonGotaProblem]

This thread keeps getting better. It's amazing how many fish a fella can catch despite not having the slightest clue how the gear works or why it's designed the way it is.

I've caught fish with some remarkably busted rods. Blind squirrel principle it seems.

You said it..."BUSTED" rods.

None of my custom rods, like I had mentioned, have never gotten busted when fighting a fish.

If you buy the components for a rod that cost $400, wouldn't you want to wrap it so it does not get "BUSTED" fighting a fish?  If you don't have a problem with it, then buy an OTS rod with a good warrentee and call it a day.

Did i just get roasted?

Man, I was a kid. I didn't know any better or have muxh of a budget. I had a cheapo rod that at one point only had 3 functional guides, of which none were the tip or bottom one. You could still cast if you flung it sideways. I "fixed" it at one point with a bent soda can tabs. I may not be very skilled, but at least I'm creative.

[Rivverrat]

 

Did i just get roasted?

   No man. No body here like that. Brian was just pointing out what's obvious... Jeff

[JasonGotaProblem]

Did i just get roasted?

   No man. No body here like that. Brian was just pointing out what's obvious... Jeff

You sure? I was thinking maybe i need to report it to a... Wait... Oh.


In case its unclear I'm entirely kidding.

[Bryan Young]

This thread keeps getting better. It's amazing how many fish a fella can catch despite not having the slightest clue how the gear works or why it's designed the way it is.

I've caught fish with some remarkably busted rods. Blind squirrel principle it seems.

You said it..."BUSTED" rods.

None of my custom rods, like I had mentioned, have never gotten busted when fighting a fish.

If you buy the components for a rod that cost $400, wouldn't you want to wrap it so it does not get "BUSTED" fighting a fish?  If you don't have a problem with it, then buy an OTS rod with a good warrentee and call it a day.

Did i just get roasted?

Man, I was a kid. I didn't know any better or have muxh of a budget. I had a cheapo rod that at one point only had 3 functional guides, of which none were the tip or bottom one. You could still cast if you flung it sideways. I "fixed" it at one point with a bent soda can tabs. I may not be very skilled, but at least I'm creative.

No roasting.

Only stating a fact.

Also, fish don't know the rod or reel you are fishing with nor do they care.  The same with lures.  I knew guys that could take a stick, whittle it a bit, tie it to leader and add a hook and catch fish.  But we still buy these pretty fancy lures. 

If you can do with what you have, more power to you.  Why spend the money for anything better?  I'm cheap.  I don't like to spend more money unless it makes perfect sense.

[Bryan Young]

This thread keeps getting better. It's amazing how many fish a fella can catch despite not having the slightest clue how the gear works or why it's designed the way it is.

I've caught fish with some remarkably busted rods. Blind squirrel principle it seems.

You said it..."BUSTED" rods.

None of my custom rods, like I had mentioned, have never gotten busted when fighting a fish.

If you buy the components for a rod that cost $400, wouldn't you want to wrap it so it does not get "BUSTED" fighting a fish?  If you don't have a problem with it, then buy an OTS rod with a good warrentee and call it a day.

Did i just get roasted?

Man, I was a kid. I didn't know any better or have muxh of a budget. I had a cheapo rod that at one point only had 3 functional guides, of which none were the tip or bottom one. You could still cast if you flung it sideways. I "fixed" it at one point with a bent soda can tabs. I may not be very skilled, but at least I'm creative.

No roasting.

Only stating a fact.

Also, fish don't know the rod or reel you are fishing with nor do they care.  The same with lures.  I knew guys that could take a stick, whittle it a bit, tie it to leader and add a hook and catch fish.  But we still buy these pretty fancy lures. 

If you can do with what you have, more power to you.  Why spend the money for anything better?  I'm cheap.  I don't like to spend more money unless it makes perfect sense.

And sorry, it's been a rough couple of days from work dealing with indecisiveness.  I guess it's showing here.  Please accept my apologies.

[JasonGotaProblem]

You guys favor me with your willingness to share your knowledge. There was nothing offensive about anything that was said. I was trying to be funny.

More dumb questions are sure to follow.

[steelfish]

............  I don't like to spend more money unless it makes perfect sense.

for me it always makes perfect sense.. my better half doesnt share my way of thinking 

[thorhammer]

Points are all valid. We tinker, because that's what we do. David Duel's WR drum was caught on a stock Squidder, the WR striped bass for a long while was on a 704Z (maybe 706Z), and more bottom fish have been caught on Long Beach's and 113's on broomstick snake guide rods than any of us will likely ever catch. Did I catch loads of grouper on bone stock 114H and solid glas rods? YES. Did I still build Cortez Customs on Sabres to do the exact same job? YES. I have more custom and high stuff than I'm about to tell anyone about, yet it seems to come down to the Penn 9's, 4500SS, and Ambassadeurs more often than not. I will buy a rod with 6" broken off for five bucks, re-tip, and call it a jigging rod in a skinny second

(I just nabbed such a St Croix this weekend for $8. The dude wanted 15, I says no it's broken).  

[philaroman]

hey, you can catch a fish with a shoelace/safety-pin/booger combo

but it ain't optimal or even enjoyable (beyond having done it ONCE, just to say you did)

& it ain't why you gravitate to this forum

[steelfish]

I will buy a rod with 6" broken off for five bucks, re-tip, and call it a jigging rod in a skinny second

LOL, I have some nice Lews 7ft heavy freshwater rods with 6" to 8" broken off from the tip, I have the same plans for them, change some guides and use them for jigging and inshore fish in SW, both passed the test to lift 15# tool box from the floor and bouncing it few times, they will be spanish macks killers.