Penn 113 Additional Dog & Spring

xaf · December 30, 2011, 01:46:22 PM

I recently saw a post with a a Penn 113 (I think) with a second dog and spring added. What is the advantage of adding a second dog? I've never known the Senators to have an issue with a single dog.

Keta · December 30, 2011, 02:37:03 PM

I wear a belt and suspenders and like the idea of a backup.

Alto Mare · December 30, 2011, 04:54:35 PM

Quote from: Keta on December 30, 2011, 02:37:03 PM
I wear a belt and suspenders and like the idea of a backup.

Excellent example Lee....I couldn't have explained it better myself

.

Bryan Young · December 31, 2011, 12:32:31 AM

If both dogs are active simultaneously, it exactly like how Keta explained. If dogs act alternatively, it's that and also the free play is lessoned by half.

theluckpusher · April 23, 2015, 02:00:24 AM

so when your setting up your double dog for bigger fish (shark reel) is it better and stronger that there action is alternatively or at the same time simultaneously

Shark Hunter · April 23, 2015, 04:04:36 AM

Its a personal preference Mr. Pusher.
I do mine like this. 114H and down are Simultaneous for extra strength. 115L and up, I do alternating to help with the back play and those bigger dogs sound like a Gatling Gun!

Alto Mare · April 23, 2015, 09:43:08 AM

Quote from: theluckpusher on April 23, 2015, 02:00:24 AM
so when your setting up your double dog for bigger fish (shark reel) is it better and stronger that there action is alternatively or at the same time simultaneously

Yes it is personal preference for some, as Shark Hunter mentioned, but not for all. Me personally along with a few others here, would rather have the dogs engaging simultaneously, that reel would be a much stronger reel.
We should concentrate on helping handle back play by changing the gear ratchet, not the dogs. Installing one or two additional teeths on the ratchet should help.
I had a few conversations with some members here about alternating dogs on fishing reels, one of the guys was Dave (jurelometer).
We came to the same conclusion that having alternating dogs, something else would fail before the second dog gets a chance.
Dave was still not fully agreeing that the two dogs would have the same pressure at the same time, If the dogs are engaging perfectly, I believe so.
The bottom line is, dogs that engage at the same time make a much stronger reel.

Sal

johndtuttle · April 23, 2015, 03:52:26 PM

Totally agree with Sal on this one.

Dogs on either side balance a twisting force on the Gear Sleeve that will contribute to flex in the frame and consequent wear. Normally the gear sleeve is not that well supported with bearings or bushings etc and double dogging helps.

Or, if it is an aesthetic thing, alternating are at least as good as original with much less handle back play.

LTM · April 23, 2015, 07:55:34 PM

Soo...,

With the combination of both dogs engaging at the same time and more teeth on the ratchet you get a much stronger reel with less back play in the handle. Then upgrading the material to stainless steel or Titanium you have another level of strength and rust prevention. Then when you add springs to keep the dogs in contact with the ratchet with more teeth, the dogs are in constant/active contact with the ratchet.

Just some of the R&D they do around here to enhance things,

Leo

johndtuttle · April 23, 2015, 08:12:29 PM

Quote from: LTM on April 23, 2015, 07:55:34 PM
Soo...,

With the combination of both dogs engaging at the same time and more teeth on the ratchet you get a much stronger reel with less back play in the handle. Then upgrading the material to stainless steel or Titanium you have another level of strength and rust prevention. Then when you add springs to keep the dogs in contact with the ratchet with more teeth, the dogs are in constant/active contact with the ratchet.

Just some of the R&D they do around here to enhance things,

Leo

Well, its more like a re-invention of the Baja Special (now USA Senator) or modding a standard Senator to have it's characteristics but minus a few others like more bearings and better free spool that the Baja has.... All of these ideas are already present in the Baja.

LTM · April 23, 2015, 08:17:24 PM

As johntuttle said: "its reinvention of the old yellow tail special". The upgrades sure took my YTS out of moth ballls.

True reinvention of a reel,

Leo

Alto Mare · April 23, 2015, 08:18:59 PM

We get more drag numbers ...way more and we're not done yet

.

LTM · April 23, 2015, 10:06:01 PM

Quote from: Alto Mare on April 23, 2015, 08:18:59 PM
We get more drag numbers ...way more and we're not done yet .

Sal,

What other modifications can you IMAGINE being done to the 113H? Other than the three pending projects by Alan C (ss bridge, eccentric jack, and gen 2 ss gear set). I will be trully lost for words if you can think of anything else (hurry-up cause Im getting older and may want to try them out). Have you thought of a simple/reliable way to two-speed these reel possibly by changing the handle length (like the adjustable handle that was out a decade or so back)? PLEASE GIVE US A HINT OF WHATS GOING ON IN YOUR IMAGINATION FOR THE 113H?

More than curious,

Leo

PS You know a stainless steel sliding/variable length handle with good locking mechanism for the 113 might not be such a bad idea, who knows?

Alto Mare · April 23, 2015, 10:16:45 PM

Leo, all I will say is when I first joined this great site, the boss said that the upgrades on the 113h are endless...he was right!

LTM · April 23, 2015, 10:52:30 PM

Quote from: Alto Mare on April 23, 2015, 10:16:45 PM
Leo, all I will say is when I first joined this great site, the boss said that the upgrades on the 113h are endless...he was right!

OK Sal,

I hope endless also includes affordable.

Com'on Sal give us a teaser of something!!! What do you think of a CNC cut adjustable handle design of stainless steel or maybe some of Adam's/3-sevens titanium?

Leo