Logic change

[Jeri]

Just to continue the theme of thought provoking discussion.

A lot of our recent designs on long spinning rods have come from a change in 'logic direction'.

People often assume that fishing lines is progressed up the rod from reel to tip, via 1st, 2nd, 3rd guides and onwards. Which leads folks to start their layouts and size range from that first guide closest to the reel.

However, what is actually happening, is the line is being pulled by the lure or sinker from the tip, though successive guides until it reaches the first guide, then line is pulled off the reel – a reverse of logic, of what people have been proposing.

With this in mind, we started designing some of our rods with that 'reverse direction' logic, and focused initially on the smallest guides we could handle at the tip, then coming back down the blank with our ideas on guide sizes and subsequent placement. The results were surprising, in that we could accommodate much smaller guide trains, and subsequently much smaller first guides.

Just a slight change of perspective.

[Swami805]

I don't use spinning rods much but I've been going to smaller stripper guides on my personal rods. I'd go smaller still but finding tall enough guides for the stripper guide is an issue.  One outfit here is starting to make tall frame guides with small rings for heavy salt but I haven't laid my hands on them yet.

[oldmanjoe]

  With the new line technology ,it has made it easier to go to smaller guide trains .   
  No more water logged line or memory coils coming off the spool.
    We have a better selection of guides to choose from also . 

[gstours]

As long as we are talking about out side of the norm..    for my next troll or spiral rod build I've had the idea to put a small guide into the stripper guide,   Like jb weld , cut, trim, and get a tall stripper guide like a lowrider 16....  this will be eventual....  and waay cool 😎.      Just saying....👨‍🔧

[JasonGotaProblem]

Getting the popcorn ready for this one.

Jeri, on average how many guides go onto one of those 15 footers you build?

[Jeri]

I don't use spinning rods much but I've been going to smaller stripper guides on my personal rods. I'd go smaller still but finding tall enough guides for the stripper guide is an issue.  One outfit here is starting to make tall frame guides with small rings for heavy salt but I haven't laid my hands on them yet.

Look at the Fuji Low Rider LC 16M, the M version is taller than the standard. There is also a 12M, but obviously not as tall.

[Jeri]

Getting the popcorn ready for this one.

Jeri, on average how many guides go onto one of those 15 footers you build?

6 running guides (size , then 3 reduction guides (16, 10, all rounded off with a size 8 tip. I've yet to make the next step down starting the whole train with a size 12, ending with a size 6. But, the standard sizes at this time are quite happy with 50lb braid and a 150lb braid leader.

[oc1]

I've been going to smaller stripper guides on my personal rods. I'd go smaller still but finding tall enough guides for the stripper guide is an issue.  

Is that why they have the Micro Wave guides?   If not, can anyone explain what-the-heck the MicroWave guides are supposed to do.

[oldmanjoe]

I've been going to smaller stripper guides on my personal rods. I'd go smaller still but finding tall enough guides for the stripper guide is an issue. 

Is that why they have the Micro Wave guides?   If not, can anyone explain what-the-heck the MicroWave guides are supposed to do.

Here is a video of what it is suppose to do .   
  Personally i think they are over priced guides .
   

[Jeri]

Only one com[any down here went that route for a couple of models in their short spinning rod range, and soon withdrawn. |Heard of problems of line getting wrapped round the frame and snagging.

To my mind, not an elegant engineering solution, haven't tried them on our long rods, but suspect that first guide would have problems with our line speeds during casting.

[JasonGotaProblem]

People keep telling me how great those microwave guides are. Many of those people are also selling them. Coincidence?

I'm intrigued but unconvinced. I'm still team Fuji-everything.

And not to change the subject but can someone explain to me why that reel had a sawtooth spool lip? What's ths point of that? Also the video says to use the same reel and blank to be scientific, but then tells us to throw the cast differently, and never compares final distance. I feel like if doing so helped their point they certainly would have compared final distance. What happens if you don't cast lighter? What happens if you cast hard AF? Why do I feel like the answer is bunching up and tangling?

[oldmanjoe]

  While we are still training the line , i remembered these pictures that may be interesting .

[JasonGotaProblem]

Joe that double guide pic is giving me anxiety.

Last comment on the air wave guides, followed by a return to the initial topic:

A side-by-side test I'd love to see would be to take those same rod combos and go into a wind tunnel, and start casting a light lure upwind (an unweighted soft plastic would do nicely but an argument could be made for using the lightest specified by the blank's lure rating), and steadily increase wind speed and keep casting til someone gets a tangle. Dollars to donuts i bet it would be the air wave setup first. I have no evidence to support this belief. But that's what it seems like.

Attempt to return briefly to the stated topic: what are the logistics of starting with the runners instead of the reducers? Are you doing test casts with no reducer guides at first? Or are you just spacing them from the top down but not test casting til all guides are roughly in place?

[oldmanjoe]

 I like to put all guides on first , than a quick static test . That takes care of the runners placement .
   Than i do test cast to check/ correct the stripper to chock guide .
   Now keep this in mind ,i Don`t do a lot of casting .    I like to stand on top of  the water and drop down and fight fish all day .   
   That double guide may work ,but i think it needs a little more space between the two .  I have not played with this set up .
  That second video shows to much uncontrolled line , i don`t think you need to try  a wind tunnel  to make it worst .

[oc1]

I going to call it bunk.  The funneling effect of the MicroWave has to be miniscule because the outer ring is only  a few millimeters in front of the inner ring.