got some issues with a couple old penns

[4x4man514]

hey guys its been a while since ive been on here luckily my reels have been holding up lol. i know all the experts are on here so i thought id start here trying to get some advice on repairing 3 of my penns.

1. my old 9/0 . i rebuilt this one a couple of years ago and i installed some of 3 sevens drag washers in it. it was a real beast plenty of drag, and quite smooth too. but this hst is tough on the reels and it finally failed. you could turn and turn and turn the crank with no reel movement. even with the drag tightened as tight as we could get it.  i took it apart but i didnt see any obvious issues. to these drags just eventually burn out? or do yall think there may be another issue somewhere?

2. my old 6/0. this one seemed to just feel almost locked down. again i took it apart  and the only issue i seen was the reel support opposite the cranking side was pretty rough and dry. i guess this could be the whole problem but im wondering if im missing something. this is the first time ive been into this reel so what would yall suggest as upgrades while i have it apart?

3. my newer 114h. tihs one hasnt been used in awhile and honestly i dont remember why i took it out of service(besides a missing clicker button) . upon taking it apart i seen that it had the 5 fiber disc drag already so i dont know if i need to upgrade that or not. there did seem to be alot more play in the (bearing?) where the big gear attaches to the plate. not sure if that is something i need to do something about or not. my older reels are much tighter than this one.

any suggestions or upgrades yall may have would be great on any of these. thanks ahead for your time
kevin

[Swami805]

#1   Did you replace the gear sleeve with a stainless sleeve when you upgrade the drags? Just guessing maybe you rounded the gear sleeve?
#2 Not sure what the reel support is, a picture would be helpful
#3 The play is the handle moves in and out when you pull it away from the reel?

[Keta]

#1.Do you have Spectra line on this reel?

[Gfish]

#1) like Lee mighta alluded to, could braid be slipping on the spool?
#2) bushing/spool shaft corrosion? Maybe too much torque on the bushing adjustment? Need for bushing shims cause of spool rub?
#3) kinda sounds like if what the Swami says is happening, then the gear sleeve has too much play. These can be shimmed(probably a brass washer best with a brass gear sleeve and brass bridge plate), but it will slightly change the gear sleeve/drag stack height.

[4x4man514]

#1   Did you replace the gear sleeve with a stainless sleeve when you upgrade the drags? Just guessing maybe you rounded the gear sleeve?
#2 Not sure what the reel support is, a picture would be helpful
#3 The play is the handle moves in and out when you pull it away from the reel?

1. i did not replace anything but the drag discs. I'm not 100% sure what the sleeve is. I've heard talk of it. seems someone told me then that since mine was old it already had steel gears. or something like that. i know I'm really showing my ignorance here . i don't really know that much about  them. i seen a little wear on the top of the small gear but I didn't think it would be something to cause my issue but I could be wrong.

2. after reading gfishs post maybe the bushing would be what I'm referring to. its like a screw on cap on the opposite side of the reel from the crank. i didn't even realize this was an adjustment.

3. yes, not a lot. but def more than the other two reels I'm working on.

[4x4man514]

#1.Do you have Spectra line on this reel?

i have what I believe they call dacron on it. but I know that the line is not spinning on the spool

[4x4man514]

#1) like Lee mighta alluded to, could braid be slipping on the spool?
#2) bushing/spool shaft corrosion? Maybe too much torque on the bushing adjustment? Need for bushing shims cause of spool rub?
#3) kinda sounds like if what the Swami says is happening, then the gear sleeve has too much play. These can be shimmed(probably a brass washer best with a brass gear sleeve and brass bridge plate), but it will slightly change the gear sleeve/drag stack height.

1. i know the line isn't slipping on the spool

2. that may very well be my problem there, a good lube job and adjustment. is there a good rule of thumb as to how to adjust this tension?

3. the play isn't so bad that it bothers me but I don't know if it is causing me problems somewhere else. can it?

[4x4man514]

thanks for all the replies guys, i have a few more ideas of what may be some of my issues.  do the drag discs wear out? could that be my problem? and where do yall suggest I find some parts at?

[Donnyboat]

Varios thing to look @, start with the gear sleeve, take the pin out & place a shim under the gear sleeve, but make sure it still turns freely, we would like to see a picture of the 9/0 gear sleeve, make sure you have a delrin or carbon fibre washer under the main gear, between 30 & 40 thou, then the drag washer, if there getting to thin, then replace them, if you think there thick enough then wash them with breake or Carb cleaner, I am presuming there carbon fibre washers, then lightly grease them with teflon grease, cals is the best, after you get that, then maybe you need another beveled washer above the drag stack, also a delrin washer under the star, makes it easier to turn the star, as week say picture replace a thousand words, many members will put pictures on for you if your like me, to thick to do it myself, good luck, now leave some fish in the ocean for us, cheers Don.

[zoner]

#1   Did you replace the gear sleeve with a stainless sleeve when you upgrade the drags? Just guessing maybe you rounded the gear sleeve?
#2 Not sure what the reel support is, a picture would be helpful
#3 The play is the handle moves in and out when you pull it away from the reel?

1. i did not replace anything but the drag discs. I'm not 100% sure what the sleeve is. I've heard talk of it. seems someone told me then that since mine was old it already had steel gears. or something like that. i know I'm really showing my ignorance here . i don't really know that much about  them. i seen a little wear on the top of the small gear but I didn't think it would be something to cause my issue but I could be wrong.

2. after reading gfishs post maybe the bushing would be what I'm referring to. its like a screw on cap on the opposite side of the reel from the crank. i didn't even realize this was an adjustment.

3. yes, not a lot. but def more than the other two reels I'm working on.


2. the screw on cap on the left side of the reel is meant to be used to adjust side play on the spool. Many times if folks have backlash problems they tighten down that adjustment to slow the spool down but like I said that's not what it's meant to be used for. Put your thumb on the spool,apply a little pressure, and try to move your thumb(and the spool) sideways back and forth. If there's no back and forth movement loosen that cap till the spool will just have a teeny bit of side to side movement. If the spool has too much sideways movement tighten the cap till once again the spool will move side to side just a little bit.

[4x4man514]

#1   Did you replace the gear sleeve with a stainless sleeve when you upgrade the drags? Just guessing maybe you rounded the gear sleeve?
#2 Not sure what the reel support is, a picture would be helpful
#3 The play is the handle moves in and out when you pull it away from the reel?

1. i did not replace anything but the drag discs. I'm not 100% sure what the sleeve is. I've heard talk of it. seems someone told me then that since mine was old it already had steel gears. or something like that. i know I'm really showing my ignorance here . i don't really know that much about  them. i seen a little wear on the top of the small gear but I didn't think it would be something to cause my issue but I could be wrong.

2. after reading gfishs post maybe the bushing would be what I'm referring to. its like a screw on cap on the opposite side of the reel from the crank. i didn't even realize this was an adjustment.

3. yes, not a lot. but def more than the other two reels I'm working on.


2. the screw on cap on the left side of the reel is meant to be used to adjust side play on the spool. Many times if folks have backlash problems they tighten down that adjustment to slow the spool down but like I said that's not what it's meant to be used for. Put your thumb on the spool,apply a little pressure, and try to move your thumb(and the spool) sideways back and forth. If there's no back and forth movement loosen that cap till the spool will just have a teeny bit of side to side movement. If the spool has too much sideways movement tighten the cap till once again the spool will move side to side just a little bit.

Got ya thanks. This one should be easy fix. Should I update the drag while its apart?

[4x4man514]

Varios thing to look @, start with the gear sleeve, take the pin out & place a shim under the gear sleeve, but make sure it still turns freely, we would like to see a picture of the 9/0 gear sleeve, make sure you have a delrin or carbon fibre washer under the main gear, between 30 & 40 thou, then the drag washer, if there getting to thin, then replace them, if you think there thick enough then wash them with breake or Carb cleaner, I am presuming there carbon fibre washers, then lightly grease them with teflon grease, cals is the best, after you get that, then maybe you need another beveled washer above the drag stack, also a delrin washer under the star, makes it easier to turn the star, as week say picture replace a thousand words, many members will put pictures on for you if your like me, to thick to do it myself, good luck, now leave some fish in the ocean for us, cheers Don.

Thanks ill check that out in the next couple days when I. Get back out there so I can explain myself a little  better

[Donnyboat]

Yes while you have it apart, update the drag to Carbon fibre, read through the senator section, or get a copy of the schematics, then you can identify the gear sleeve, keep at it man, we have our money on you, gee it is great when you catch a nice fish on a reel you have restored, cheers  Don.

[4x4man514]

hey yall i finally got a chanced to get back at my reels. heres what i got

1. the 9/0, when i finally got it the rest of the way apart i found the issue. the drag had failed. i dont know if yall are familiar with the three sevens drag, (a beast) but this thing has an insert that goes inside the gear and actually looks like a gear? or maybe a flower shape on the inside? the carbon fiber discs are shaped the same so they wont spin inside the gear. well all the (petals?) were ripped off allowing the center of the cf discs to rotate inside the gear. do yall know if this is a common issue? this thing had a ton of drag and was really smooth UNTIL it failed then it had zero. is it worth it to try again or should i try a different set up?

2. the 6/0. lack of maintenence. lol. the end bushings were dry and the reel just needed a good cleaning and re lube. i did go ahead and replace the drag with the bryan young set up while i was in there though . man is that smooth.

3. the 114h, replaced the clicker button lubed it up real good and the slop seemed to go away . go figure.  i dont know what i did there but it seems much better now.

of course i havent been fishing yet so i may realize that i indeed did not fix them. lol. but i wont know that until i get out there.

thanks again for all the help guys!!!

[Donnyboat]

Your confusing me, when you say the petals were stripped of, are you talking about the teeth on the main gear or the eared drag washers, if you could post some pictures would be the best, or if your having trouble doing that, there are plenty of good people  on the forum, that would post the pics for you, cheers Don.