Binding of lever drag reels

[miwidomi]

Hi Alan,

Re: Binding of lever drag reels in correspondence with different bearings.

One of our members in the "NAF" (Norwegian Angler Forum) told me that by changing the bearings in a lever drag reel to angular contact bearings the binding went down to zero. He reached this result with a Jigging Master Power Spell PE3 with a breaking power of 8 KG, resp. 17,6 lbs.

See pictures:
http://www.norwegen-angelforum.net/a...7&d=1326748544
http://www.norwegen-angelforum.net/a...8&d=1326748559

To reach this result he used two angular contact bearings.
The uses bearings have a contact angle of 15°; more would supposedly be better; if possible 45°.

The bearings used are from this company:
http://www.gmnbt.com/spindlebearings_S.htm

As far as known it seems to be quite difficult to get those angular contact bearings in the relevant small sizes.

See links:
http://www.nskmicro.co.jp/english/pr...ucts01_09.html

45° contact angle:
http://www.sbn.de/en/produkte/artike...ugellager.html

And also important is to respect the correct direction of installation of the bearings.

Alan, thank you very much for your interest. Your remarks on that would be very welcome.

Michael
(miwidomi)

[alantani]

michael, i checked the links and most of them are not working for some reason.  obviously, to do the job properly, you would need a radial bearing and a thrust bearing on each end of the spool shaft. my first guess is that, by providing support in either direction, an angular contact bearing would give proportionally less support in both.  one bearing trying to do the job of two bearings, and failing at both. 

we would only know for sure if it was tried!   

[kossiossi]

see pictures:
http://www.norwegen-angelforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=73717&d=1326748544

http://www.norwegen-angelforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=73718&d=1326748559

see links:
http://www.nskmicro.co.jp/english/products/products01_09.html

45° contact angle
http://www.sbn.de/en/produkte/artikel/76/miniatur-schraegkugellager.html

Danny

[paal]

michael, i checked the links and most of them are not working for some reason.  obviously, to do the job properly, you would need a radial bearing and a thrust bearing on each end of the spool shaft. my first guess is that, by providing support in either direction, an angular contact bearing would give proportionally less support in both.  one bearing trying to do the job of two bearings, and failing at both. 

we would only know for sure if it was tried!   

Alan, could you please explain why such a bearing would give less support in the "radial" direction? It's obvious to me that this bearing will give very poor support when loaded sideways in the wrong direction, but from the drawing it looks like it will give good support both radially and sideways in the correct direction... Or am I missing something...

[Jimmer]

I think Paal has a valid point, if you look at the perfomance chart on the NSK page both types of bearings start the same at zero  and the angular contact bearing way out performs under all increasing axial load conditions. I think every bearing in a lever drag is under axial load with the drag engaged, this looks interesting.

[Bryan Young]

Looks like this would work if the bearing was not seated completely in the bearing cups as most all pinion bearing are situated.

[Jimmer]

Bryan, I don't have any experience with this type of bearing - do the two races need to be able to move independent of each other in an axial direction to function properly? I've got a little time right now, think I'll do some reading - Thanks - Jimmer

[Keta]

michael, i checked the links and most of them are not working for some reason.  obviously, to do the job properly, you would need a radial bearing and a thrust bearing on each end of the spool shaft. my first guess is that, by providing support in either direction, an angular contact bearing would give proportionally less support in both.  one bearing trying to do the job of two bearings, and failing at both.  

we would only know for sure if it was tried!  

Angular contact bearings are good for both linear and radial loads, many auto wheel bearings are angular contact bearings.  For use on reels I feel they should be flanged so they aren't installed backward.

I think every bearing in a lever drag is under axial load with the drag engaged, this looks interesting.

The spool bearings should never see a sideload.

[paal]

......
The spool bearings should never see a sideload.

I agree if it's a star drag. But for a lever drag it must be the spool bearings that receive the full side load of the drag plate being pushed onto the spool/fibre-washer, right?

[Keta]

Not if there is a sleeve between the spool bearings or shoulder on the shaft transferring the side load load on the inter races, the outer race and spool "float" and do not see sideloading.  Most spool bearings would rapidly fail under any sideload.

[JGB]

On lever drags the left spool bearing takes the same side load as the pinion bearing - unless you have a Makiara with spool thrust bearing ot Accurates with twin drag configurations..
The reason is when the drag is engaged the pressure plate presses in the drag and pushes the spool left into the left spool bearing.

In regards to the angular contact bearings. they are near impossible to find in the right sizes. Also by design the angular bearings give up some of the ability to take radial loads. This is probably not a problem for spool bearings. My concern is that the free spool will be affected and there will be friction from the axial ball contact with the flange unless the the bearing is designed to have axial play when not loaded. I believe Angular contact bearings are not designed to optimally perform with zero axial load. A properly sleeved spool with a spring axial pre load could be made to work with some bearing 'rattle'. The Makiara opted for a separate thrust bearing and dedicated spool bearings to preserve the free spool and reduce the binding. They still have the potential for some binding from the pinion bearing. The pinion bearing is made larger and is of very high quality to minimize the binding effect.

Jim N.

[paal]

Not if there is a sleeve between the spool bearings or shoulder on the shaft transferring the side load load on the inter races, the outer race and spool "float" and do not see sideloading.  Most spool bearings would rapidly fail under any sideload.

For a regular (single disk) lever drag I don't see how the spool can float, when there is a disk pressing on it on the side. This force is transfered from the drag disk onto the spool, and the only way this force can be transfered from there is onto the outer races of the spool bearings. From there it is transfered to the inner race of the spool bearing, and onto the bellevilles on the shaft itself. Then via the shaft and back to the drag cam and preset button, where it all started

[Keta]

You are right.

[Jimmer]

I think a spool sleeve works to split the axial load between the spool bearings, but I don't think it will eliminate it. I've been out of school almost 35 years but I remember from statics class that all the forces along the spool shaft net out to zero. I'm going to pour some Crown in a glass later, and after I figure out why it makes the ice cubes crack I'll give this some more thought.

[alantani]

gotta stand my ground here, guys.  i still believe that the final answer will be a radial bearing AND a thrust bearing at each end of the spool shaft.  it just kills me, because all we'd need is 4 more millimeters on the inside of an avet side plate and we could mill out enough room for a thrust bearing under the right main side plate bearing.  4 millimeters, that's all.  an angular thrust bearing is a poor second.    jimmer, pour a glass for me while you're at it!