5000c questions from an absolute noob

[tincanary]

people wanted to take baitcasting fishing into the next step of UL fishing, there is a "new" wave of casting UL lures with Baitcasting called BFS (bait finesse system) using baitcasting reels with special shallow, drilled out/ultralight, spools and light-action rods to throw lures weighing less than approximately 5-7g (3/16 oz to ¼ oz and below).

just to make fishing more entertaining, the goal is to cast lures with UL rods, sometimes using light fly blanks with baitcasting reels, catching a fish is just the cherry on the cake.

but to get into that you have to know how to cast lures with a casting reel without problem, then you can go down to cast light lures with small lowprofile reels or small old school reels (right Steve?) and just then, you can check to get into BFS.

I like to use small spinning reel from light shore fishing, but becomes boring when fish are not present, casting light lures with a small lowprofile reel make the day a bit less boring when there is not "catching" just "fishing".

I have some BFS reels, lots of fun to use.  Most of what I'm throwing is between 1/16 and 3/16, and these are brush choked trout streams I normally fish in.  In that capacity, they're the perfect tool.  You can fish in places a fly fisherman would have a lot of trouble and have much better accuracy than a spinning outfit.

This is my favorite combo, 4'10" Major Craft Finetail Stream Glass and a Shimano Calcutta Conquest BFS.  It has been places where the skeeters look like pterodactyls.

[steelfish]

So, coming from an actual user of BFS , why did you choose BFS over small 500 spinning reels?

[oc1]

I'm shocked Bob!  A tricked-out 5000 should be able to do what the Calcutta does.  Yeah?  That sure is a nice looking reel and switch though.

Alex, what's the difference in BFS and normal ultralight fishing?  I better get with the program.

[tincanary]

So, coming from an actual user of BFS , why did you choose BFS over small 500 spinning reels?

3 reasons; accuracy, the ability to cast in very confined quarters, and a stout drag.  Most of those 500 size spinners aren't going to handle a 20"+ wild brown or rainbow, but it is plenty enough for smaller 12" and under brook trout.  These BFS reels have drags like those of their larger siblings.  The drag in this Calcutta is like that of the larger 100 size.  I typically run 8lb or 10lb braided line and top it off with a 6lb mono leader or even 8lb if the stream conditions warrant it.  The streams where I am are loaded with all kinds of gremlins like logjams, root wads, and sharp rocks.  2lb or 4lb mono like many often run typically results in lures lost to the stream or fish breaking you off in the wood.

[tincanary]

I'm shocked Bob!  A tricked-out 5000 should be able to do what the Calcutta does.  Yeah?  That sure is a nice looking reel and switch though.

Alex, what's the difference in BFS and normal ultralight fishing?  I better get with the program.

A tricked out 5000 has to contend with spool weight.  These BFS (bait finesse system) reels have very light spools.  Your typical 5000 will have a spool that weighs somewhere between 20g and 30g depending on model, while these BFS reels have spools that will weigh anywhere from 6g to 10g.  Most people that do up an Ambassadeur for BFS will use a 1500C or 2500C, but then additional components are needed like a lighter spool, ball bearing idler gear and worm gear, and magnetic brake.  Those small Abus are expensive to modify into BFS reels.  Between the reel and associated upgrades, it's very easy to spend $500+ on one of those.  My Shimano on the other hand, ran me about $325 on sale earlier this year.

[tincanary]

Here's a guy in Japan with a tricked out 2500C.  Watch his casting technique.

[JasonGotaProblem]

I guess that's my hangup. Most my fishing lately is on my ultralight, in a very vegetated lakes, casting soft plastics rigged Texas weedless style with no added weight. The heavier ones are around 0.25oz. My daiwa ss700 is great for that, and with the carbon drag upgrade I can get around 10# of drag, though I never go that high with it. And I can throw those quarter oz lures a good 50yds if I'm not aiming, or an accurate-ish 30yds.

And coming into this I very mistakenly thought that I would be able to just immediately continue doing that, but with a different type of reel. Clearly until I get a bit more advanced with my skill and equipment, a baitcaster will mean heavier lures. And that's fine too, it's just a different type of fishing.

[tincanary]

And coming into this I very mistakenly thought that I would be able to just immediately continue doing that, but with a different type of reel. Clearly until I get a bit more advanced with my skill and equipment, a baitcaster will mean heavier lures. And that's fine too, it's just a different type of fishing.

The biggest Ambassadeur I'd consider making a finesse reel out of would be a 4500 or 4600.  The aftermarket spools are light enough making them conducive to throwing 1/8 or so.  Here's one of those 4500 spools, note the porting to lighten it up, plus the shallowness which translates to less rotating mass when loaded with line.  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001140002917.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.20.70015d63krApX8 This one comes in at a whopping 8g, almost half the weight of a new production 4600 C3 spool.

There are many aftermarket spools out there for most of the popular low profile reels as well.  Platforms like the Black Max/Silver Max/Pro Max/Revo X, Fuego/Tatula CT, and various Shimano models all have them available.  The Black Max 3 is a cracking platform for a budget BFS reel and those reels can be found used for less than $30.  Add another $20 to $30 for a spool, and you're fishing.

[steelfish]

So, coming from an actual user of BFS , why did you choose BFS over small 500 spinning reels?

3 reasons; accuracy, the ability to cast in very confined quarters, and a stout drag.  Most of those 500 size spinners aren't going to handle a 20"+ wild brown or rainbow, but it is plenty enough for smaller 12" and under brook trout.  These BFS reels have drags like those of their larger siblings.  The drag in this Calcutta is like that of the larger 100 size.  I typically run 8lb or 10lb braided line and top it off with a 6lb mono leader or even 8lb if the stream conditions warrant it.  The streams where I am are loaded with all kinds of gremlins like logjams, root wads, and sharp rocks.  2lb or 4lb mono like many often run typically results in lures lost to the stream or fish breaking you off in the wood.

thanks for answering amigo.

I said it before but once again, BFS fishing attracts me just for the challenge that represents I dont need accuracy fishing on the rocks, it would be pretty cool to fight a mad triggerfish with 8-10# braid and 10# mono leader on a pretty light rod with a Revo sx tricked-out for BFS, I have done it before but it was with a 2500 spinning reel with 6# mono and a daiwa megaforce 1/8-3/4 rod so, no a UL rod but still pretty thin and bendy graphite rod and the fight was like fighting a 40# homeguard YT haha, it was the fishing rod of my 8yo daughter but she couldnt handle the fish so, she passed the rod to me.
the problem is that fishing on saltwater a bigger fish can take your lure and line capacity and 10# line might not be enough.

the light saltwater fishing bug bit me when I used 6# mono on a 2500 reel for line capacity because I was casting 80-90yds or more with a 14ft 25gr rod, caught a 2# and 4# seabass / seatrout and it was a blass, I would like to do the same but with a baitcasting reel, but need line capacity to cast 1/4oz Krock spoons.


BTW, beautiful reel you have there, that calcutta BFS is awesome

[DougK]

There are many aftermarket spools out there for most of the popular low profile reels as well.  Platforms like the Black Max/Silver Max/Pro Max/Revo X, Fuego/Tatula CT, and various Shimano models all have them available.  The Black Max 3 is a cracking platform for a budget BFS reel and those reels can be found used for less than $30.  Add another $20 to $30 for a spool, and you're fishing.

I put a BFS reel together out of a Revo X 4 for $50, Aliexpress spool for $20, and a couple of ceramic bearings for $10.
It will actually throw 1g (1/32 oz) lures.. I tie trout streamers on 1g jig heads and fish them on UL spin gear, was amazed to find the BFS can throw them just about as far. Though I do have to focus a bit..
2g and up throws very easily. Haven't caught a fish on it yet but live in hope ;-)

Most my fishing lately is on my ultralight, in a very vegetated lakes, casting soft plastics rigged Texas weedless style with no added weight. The heavier ones are around 0.25oz. My daiwa ss700 is great for that, and with the carbon drag upgrade I can get around 10# of drag, though I never go that high with it. And I can throw those quarter oz lures a good 50yds if I'm not aiming, or an accurate-ish 30yds.

And coming into this I very mistakenly thought that I would be able to just immediately continue doing that, but with a different type of reel. Clearly until I get a bit more advanced with my skill and equipment, a baitcaster will mean heavier lures. And that's fine too, it's just a different type of fishing.

with a 5000, I can just about throw 1/8oz most of the time, but 1/4 goes much better. These aren't great casting reels for the lighter lures, heavier spool and no mag brake does make it tricky. But 0.25oz to 30yds accurately should be quite possible.

Picked up a sadly battered 4600c and have a light spool coming for it, look forward to refurbishing the reel this winter and getting it back into fishable shape.

[steelfish]

I put a BFS reel together out of a Revo X 4 for $50, Aliexpress spool for $20,

I didnt knew BFS spools were that cheap for the Revo line up.

[JasonGotaProblem]

I put a BFS reel together out of a Revo X 4 for $50, Aliexpress spool for $20,

I didnt knew BFS spools were that cheap for the Revo line up.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Abu-Garcia-BFS-Microcast-Spool-BLACK-BLUE-ORANGE-PRO-PURPLE-SILVER-MAX-3-/114277453693?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

Might have to look into that.

[steelfish]

I put a BFS reel together out of a Revo X 4 for $50, Aliexpress spool for $20,

I didnt knew BFS spools were that cheap for the Revo line up.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Abu-Garcia-BFS-Microcast-Spool-BLACK-BLUE-ORANGE-PRO-PURPLE-SILVER-MAX-3-/114277453693?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

Might have to look into that.

I think those spools only fit the "Max" family, black max, silver max and pro max but not 100% sure.

[tincanary]

I think those spools only fit the "Max" family, black max, silver max and pro max but not 100% sure.

Look on AliExpress, Ray's Studio and AMO/Momo make the best BFS spools and are reasonably priced.  The spool in the Max 3 reels is the same dimensions as the Revo X, so they are cross compatible.  

The Max 3 spool with the short shaft (2 piece) is set up similar to how the higher end Daiwa reels come out of the factory.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001459947405.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.14.70015d63qbXDqO

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001929017070.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.62.70015d63NNhhkO


This is an AMO spool in my Daiwa Alphas CT SV.

[oc1]

What is the lightest whiffle spool for a 5000C?  Asking for both Jason and myself.

So, when it comes to casting light baits the controlling factors are spool weight, bearings, braking and levelwind.  Modern low-pros come with light spool, good bearings, magnetic and centrifugal breaking, and disengaging levelwind.  A 5000 can accommodate upgraded bearings, static magnets and levlwind removed.  The spool weight is the problem and might be insurmountable simply because of the large diameter.  So, is it impossible to modify a 5000 into a BFS reel?

For me, the fundamental problem with a 5000 is the size.   They are too tall to comfortably palmed.  To be honest, even the smaller ambassadeurs round reels are too large as well.  They seem to waste too much space under the hood,  The Calcutta 50 is a round reel, but very compact.