PENN 970, 980, 990 MAG POWER REELS - PARTS INTERCHANGABILITY & MODIFICATIONS ???

[ez2cdave]

PENN 970, 980, 990 MAG POWER REELS - PARTS INTERCHANGABILITY & MODIFICATIONS

I have ZERO experience with this series of Penn reels and I have several questions.

( 1 ) Among the 970, 980, & 990, which Components ( other than the Spool, Reel Foot, and Spacer Bars ) will interchange ?

( 2 ) Which components will not interchange ?

( 3 ) What modifications can be performed ?

I am, primarily, concerned with the 980 and 990 reels . . . Mostly about drivetrain components.

Thanks, in advance, for all help !

Tight lines !

Dave F.

[foakes]

You can probably check on Mystic's website

Print out (3) parts lists — then do a color code comparison matching up the numbers.

I traded a crate load of 970-980-990 NOS parts to Sal a couple of years ago — for a bunch of DAM Quick parts he had.

So I am not much help here.

Best, Fred

[PacRat]

Dave,
Run a search here and especially pay attention to Sal. I vaguely remember that he wrote that his love for these reels had something to do with parts compatibility with 4/0...especially gears and drag, so very likely eccentric, yoke, etc. also.

This is a good place to start: https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=10273.0

[Brendan]

     I must have been so into my pro gear CS501 that I never noticed that thread. Looks like a great little reel.
Brendan.

[ez2cdave]

I had read all of the Mag Power threads previously.

It's nice to be able to use 113H components !

I have eliminated the 970 & 990, concentrating on the 980.

My question, now, is . . .  Since the Reel Spacers are the same width as those used on the 500 / 500S Jigmaster, might the 30-200 Reel Stand / Foot from the 500 interchange, since the 30N-980 units are impossible to locate ?

Please keep the info coming . . .

Tight Lines !

Dave F.

[Swami805]

I think the  sideplate screws are different but might be the same threads
I don't think a 113H pinion will work, the spool shaft is 114H diameter

[ez2cdave]

I think the  sideplate screws are different but might be the same threads
I don't think a 113H pinion will work, the spool shaft is 114H diameter

Hmm . . . The 990 has a 4.7:1 gear ratio, with "115"( 114H ) size drag washers. The 970 & 980 have a 4.25:1 gear ratio with 113H sized drag washers.

At first, I looked at the 990 for the possibility of 6/0 gears, BUT that is NOT the case ( smaller Pinion ). So, the 980, with the 4/0 113H size drag, "gets the nod".

Tight Lines !

Dave F.

[Porthos]

The 970/980's are much more pleasant to crank if the 24-970 balanced handle is replaced with a 24-349H or other 113H power handle...

[ez2cdave]

The 970/980's are much more pleasant to crank if the 24-970 balanced handle is replaced with a 24-349H or other 113H power handle...

Thanks for the tip . . . I have 2 or 3 of those handles !

Tight Lines !

Dave F.

[Maxed Out]

 Thorhammer is our go to guru on these reels. I'm sure he'll be along shortly

[ez2cdave]

Thorhammer is our go to guru on these reels. I'm sure he'll be along shortly

Excellent  . . . I'm looking forward to hearing from him !

Tight Lines !

Dave F.

[Porthos]

What would be a great project for someone with a 3D printer is to scan the outward facing side of the plate rings and create a drop-in ring shim that fills the gap between side plates and the plate rings and provides protection against over-tightening the plate screws. Resolving the problem with some form of pillar bedding for each screw hole involves too much of effort, IMHO. I only attempted it for one hole:

https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9889.0

This would seem to be a significantly more feasible project than expecting the milling of single piece frames by Cortez Conversions.

[mo65]

This would seem to be a significantly more feasible project than expecting the milling of single piece frames by Cortez Conversions.

   I agree Wai!

[jurelometer]

What would be a great project for someone with a 3D printer is to scan the outward facing side of the plate rings and create a drop-in ring shim that fills the gap between side plates and the plate rings and provides protection against over-tightening the plate screws. Resolving the problem with some form of pillar bedding for each screw hole involves too much of effort, IMHO. I only attempted it for one hole:

https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9889.0

This would seem to be a significantly more feasible project than expecting the milling of single piece frames by Cortez Conversions.

The printers don't scan, scanners scan.  Scanners that will work for mechanical parts are some pretty fancy devices.  There are other tricks to measure out the part plus a bit of trial and error to get part dimensions  the old fashioned way.

If memory serves me right,  Penn was attempting to use a more dimensionally stable plastic than Bakelite for these reels (and some others). I think they went to  polycarbonate, but I could be wrong.   The two downsides for polycarbonate for this usage is  UV caused degradation  (probably why a deep black color was used- all that carbon black powder helps with UV) and terrible compressive load capability. 

So the two things you don't want to do with these sideplates is to expose them to daylight for a long period of time, and tighten down the screws very hard. 

But the good news is that only minimal clamping load is required to meet the mechanical requirements  for this design style.  The only mechanical lateral load on the side plates is  coming  from the from the helical gears, which should not be that significant.

That leaves flexing load from the line being under tension.  The screws for the load bearing parts do not go through the sideplate, they go from the heavy duty "rings" into the crossbars  and foot creating a rigid frame.  Since polycarbonate does not expand much, it can fit tightly inside of the ring, further resisting any flexing.   So the only role that the sideplate screws play at the point is to hold the sideplate in place, which does not require much torque.

The only remaining flex issue is turning the handle against load. This can flex the bridge area on the sideplate against the outside screws.   But  the load will be pushing on some holes and pulling on others, so additional clamping load probably does not help.

It  seems to me that the best answer is not to tighten the screws much, as clamping down extra damages the sideplate without providing any performance benefit. If the screws keep backing out, consider using a bit of the lightest grade of locktite.

An alternate fix is to put something between the sideplate and the ring at each screw hole that has a bit of compressive elasticity that will help keep the screws from backing out, which is what Wei's proposed fix would mostly do.  There has to be enough of a gap for this part, and it has to be precisely sized so that the load is evenly distributed at each screw hole. And in order to see if it actually works, you would have to tighten the screws past what would have caused damage before, so this probably means sacrificing a few sideplates.  A non-elastic part would just concentrate the compressive load on the countersink shoulders, which might be worse than nothing.

The pillar bedding technique in Wei's other thread basically clamps the brass tube to the frame, and relies on epoxy adhesion to hold the sideplate to the tube.

I'm not against attempting this shim part if someone wants to send me a 970/980 and a half dozen sets of sacrificial sideplates that probably won't be returned undamaged  . This would have been a good idea for a manufacturer to do so that customers would not keep breaking the sideplates during maintenance.

But since the reels are already out in circulation, it seems easier to me to follow Sal's advice: Tighten lightly and evenly by hand.  Don't put too long a handle arm on these reels.  Use the spool to help pop out the sideplate for maintenance, don't try to lever them out.

The remaining question is what to do about replacing cracked sideplates.  A redesigned frame/sideplate kit would be nice, as the factory frames are wayyyy to large for the capacity of these reels, but there may not be enough reels in circulation to justify a kit. 

The other option is drop in aftermarket sideplates that would fit the existing frames.   These could be 3D printed,  or even better machined out of Delrin.  Not sure if folks here are interested in less aesthetically  pleasing  sideplates that might get the job done, so that might rule out 3D printing.   I don't  have  a access to a mill any more, so  no Delrin sideplates  from me...

-J

[Porthos]

Jurelometer,

No, I wasn't expecting the 3D printer to scan (ha ha!); was thinking that maybe there was a member with a 3D printer AND access to a scanner. I have yet to get a 3D printer since I don't have sufficient projects to justify getting one.

As for the old fashion way, in my left plate repair post, the 2nd photo shows that measuring the internal depth of the ring will be straightforward as well as in the 5th photo showing the ease of measuring the internal plate rim (?) height. Did exactly that for the cut piece of brass to minimize rework on the tubing.

I will dig in the garage to find that damaged left side plate as well as the spare rings. The damaged plate has three intact holes remaining for any destruction in testing. I don't think the remainder of my 970 parts reel are needed since I already harvested at least three parts out of it. The spare intact handle side plate I will keep given its limited availability.

Perhaps a better way to proceed would be to put out a call for members to commit to also sending you their damaged 970/980 plates (handle and left). Probably best, also, to not have stuff sent to you until there is a sufficient pool of committed damaged plates with intact remaining holes to cover all eight.

Your thoughts?

- Wai