A good first conventional reel

[boon]

My 2c...

A narrow reel for self-managing line-lay and a good casting conventional are opposite goals.

Don't fear the ARB... anything modern with an ARB with silent backup dog is a whole lot nicer to fish than anything with sprung dogs. Especially if you're jigging - for one, no backplay, the second is you don't have to listen to the reel all day. Consider that basically any modern spinner is using an ARB (probably with no backup unless it's high-end) and they don't fail all over the place.

You don't need that much drag. It's just silly. A rod that would balance a Fathom 15 is going to explode in your face if you put 25lb of drag over it; that's 80lb class drag or at least 50lb class if you're brave and tie good knots. Much over 20lb drag for more than a minute or two is either harnessed or rail fishing territory. The Fathom 15 is a 20-30lb line class reel, you could fill it with 50lb braid and it would arguably have the drag to make use of it but once again, any rod that doesn't feel stupid with that reel on it is not going to have the beans (unless it's a higher-end mechanical jig rod, in which case it will be too short and stiff for enjoyable bait fishing).

[JasonGotaProblem]

It's starting to sound like I want my first 3 conventionals.

And to be clear when I talk about drag desires I'm thinking smoothness. If a reel only has 15# of drag, it ain't smooth at 15# of drag. If it has 25# of drag, it's probably silky at 15# that's what I'm looking for. And if a conventional only has like 12# of drag, well some of my bass spinners have more drag than that. What's the point of going to a conventional for that?

[steelfish]

And if a conventional only has like 12# of drag, well some of my bass spinners have more drag than that. What's the point of going to a conventional for that?

you dont go conventional because they are better/stronger reels, its just a different tool to fish, thats why you always see the same rod by a commercial brand on casting and spinning configuration on every fishing technique as jigging, bait, casting lures, etc.

son guys will never use conventional reels.. ever !
they will get a $1,000 dlls shimano Stella for tuna fishing over a shimano talica 25-II or a penn International 20

if you want to get your fish conventional for bottom fishing and jigging with a strong reel no need to go conventional, get a quantum Cabo 60 spinning reel or a fin-nor Lethal 100 maybe a SHimano Socorro 8000, etc. they will cast also without worries of a birdnest even on a nasty windy day, spinning reels are a trusty tool for any kind of fishing well, maybe you can leave Trolling outta the capabilities of an spinning reel.

Conventional Vs Spinning = Coke Vs Pepsi = Chevy Vs Ford, etc, etc.

now if you really want a conventional reel, be prepared to find in short time that you will want at least 3-5 reels but it seems you already noticed that, one small to cast light lures, one bigger for bottom fishing, another one for jigging and casting, etc. etc

[the rockfish ninja]

My 2 cents,

-Which one? You mention casting & ratnest, if it's for casting you might want to look at reels that have cast control like the bait caster you have, if casting is a problem. Some Abu & Avet have that feature.

-Thumbing the spool & line lay are two different things, both are arts that need to be mastered to be effective. Avoid reels with level wind feature as they cut down on casting distance drastically.

-RE:Drag -The only small or midsize conventionals I know of that put out that kind of drag are Accurate Valiants, not cheap or reasonable, and lever drag not star drag like the Penn.

-Narrow spools are designed usually for jigging and make casting slightly more challenging, but in the hands of an experienced surfcaster it does just as well or better. My surf reel has been an Avet SG narrow for over a decade.

AR vs ARB - I've got no feelings either way

2 speed? - If you're chasing pelagics from a boat yes, but for casting I don't see any benefit.

Easy to work on? Lever drag reels are easier to maintain than star drags for me, and 2 speed makes it even more complicated.

Cost - You always want to get the best you can afford, and Penn fathoms have a lot of bang for the buck. I have more expensive tastes and a you only live once mentality so I look for the *best* first conventional reel. I think getting out to a shop that has some reels and getting them in your hands will help you fine tune your decision too.

good luck shopping

[steelfish]

... I have more expensive tastes and a you only live once mentality

I have that mentality too but not the wallet to match it   

[Jenx]

Conventional reels shine the most when you are targeting bigger fish, and/or when you need more line capacity. Conventionals can generally hold a lot of line in a more compact reel. For example: A Penn Slammer 5500 has about the same line capacity as a Fathom 15, yet the Slammer is five ounces heavier. That difference in weight only increases as the reels get bigger (10oz difference between a Fathom 40 and a Slammer 8500).

Also if you have any physical health issues, or are just getting older in age, you can rest a conventional rod on the boats railing to help relieve some of the strain on your arms and back.

[wailua boy]

I would recommend a Penn 980. It's pretty versatile, a great shore casting reel but can be used off shore and can be had for less than $200.

[foakes]

Hard to beat a Penn Jigmaster for your first Conventional.

1:4, aluminum spool, HT-100 drags, easy spool switch out when fishing, tough and proven.

Here is a new USA one for $55.

This will get your feet wet without breaking the bank —- and will still be going when any of the new fancy shiny reels that cost many times more —- are in the landfill.

Best, Fred

https://alantani.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=34725.0;attach=109429;image
Thats a REEL DEAL IF it is old stock but New Jiggys ae made now in JYNA.

Yes, Henry —-

It is brand new, made in USA, spooled but never mounted, tools, clamp hardware, wrench, all paperwork, box.

Just received it this morning.

Best, Fred

[JasonGotaProblem]

And I was thinking about that one too. Good buy.

[JasonGotaProblem]

This might not be the thread for it but has anyone attempted a flip down Aperture on a level wind assembly? Something that can be active on retrieval and out of the way for casting. I can't be the first person to think of this.

[Gfish]

Sounds like a plan. Never seen that.
 Abu and some others came the closest to that, that I know of. Pushing the free-spool button not only disengaged the pinion and got the kick-lever ready to re-engage everything when the crank was turned. It also disengaged the levelwinder. Meaning, the line was still in the aperture, but not engaged with the spool/crank. The aperture would slide back and forth as the line left the spool on a cast, with a minimal of friction, then re-engage when the crank was turned.

The Ultra-Mag(vintage 80's) that I have, even has little springs to keep the aperture from slamming into the sides as it jets back and forth on a cast. But this is a bait casting reel.
The kicker if you're still with me: on the larger Ultra-Mags you could separate the 2-half's of the levelwinder wires and push them simi-permanently to each side for full friction-free casting. They stayed together via a magnet until you physically separated them.

Jason, if you want to try a bare-bones Penn conventional, I have several that a friend gave me. PM me for details, only 1–would I sell, cause it's a nice Surfmaster 100, others work fine, @ N/C.

[Wompus Cat]

This might not be the thread for it but has anyone attempted a flip down Aperture on a level wind assembly? Something that can be active on retrieval and out of the way for casting. I can't be the first person to think of this.

Ocean City 944 and  945 Kinda does that in that in Free Spool The Level Wind goes in NEUTRAL then back Engaged when you put lever in retrieve.
Bout 1960 ish.

[steelfish]

This might not be the thread for it but has anyone attempted a flip down Aperture on a level wind assembly? Something that can be active on retrieval and out of the way for casting. I can't be the first person to think of this.

I think not reel maker had done something exactly as you said (pretty similar yes but not many out there), because for really long casts you dont want the levelwind, leveling the line with your thumb or index finger it becomes natural after a while.
there are also kits to delete the levelwind system on abu garcia ambadassadeur reels, levelwind on the "new" big low profile reels 300, 400 and 500 size is good because you normally made thousand cast during the day on light rods.

[jurelometer]

This might not be the thread for it but has anyone attempted a flip down Aperture on a level wind assembly? Something that can be active on retrieval and out of the way for casting. I can't be the first person to think of this.

Daiwa T-Wing.  You still have to contain the line in the aperture, so that when you start winding, the line is picked up.  The T Wing handles this by having an flip up/down aperture that is wide when in the casting position, but narrow in the retrieve.  Not sure if the advantage is enough to overcome the added complexity and additional carriage weight.  I think the T-Wing  is a disengaging (on cast) levelwind, but disengaging levelwinds introduce other issues.

There are many trade-offs involved in making a levelwind that casts well, but also can stand the rigors of high drag.  Lightweight vs strong on the line guide carriage and the gears that translate spool rotation to worm rotation, disengaging vs. non disengaging, etc., etc.  Once we get into larger saltwater reels with a levelwind, the choices lean more toward strength but at the expense of inhibiting casting distance.  Some of these larger levelwinds still cast  sort of OK if you are casting a heavy jig, but still are at a pretty big disadvantage. 

So many folks have problems guiding the line with a thumb that levelwinds on bigger reels are still very popular, despite all the disadvantages.

Getting back to drag ratings: 

1.  Stand on a sturdy picnic table and try to lift 15 lbs tied to the line with the rod that you are planning to use.  The leverage working against you makes this more difficult than it might seem.  Fishermen tend to greatly overestimate the actual drag settings that they are using. Which leads to the next item. 

2. Many reel companies flat out lie or cheat on drag rating.  For example if the spool diameter is halved, you get twice the drag with the same reel at the same drag setting.  A neat trick is to measure the drag with the spool not very full and publish those numbers.

3.  You have to also look at maximum winding load  (before excessive wear or failure) when considering drag requirements.  The more drag required, the more winding load required.  My personal rule of thumb is that I ideally want the reel to be able to manage a winding load of at least half of the drag setting, But what is acceptable will vary depending on technique, fishing methods and target species.

Maximum winding load is not something that the reel makers publish.  But in general, conventionals fare better than spinners in this regard. I am not one of those jumbo tuna chasers, but I suspect the that the winding load to drag ratio on a quality big game is better than 1:1.  That way you can rail the rod and wind away in low gear.

-J

[boon]

Maximum winding load is not something that the reel makers publish.  But in general, conventionals fare better than spinners in this regard. I am not one of those jumbo tuna chasers, but I suspect the that the winding load to drag ratio on a quality big game is better than 1:1.  That way you can rail the rod and wind away in low gear.

Controversial perhaps, but maybe the difference between a fishing reel and a winch.
My electric reels have higher nominal lifting power than they have drag... because they're glorified winches.