Best reel suited for my purpose

[Makule]

One of the comments posted on another thread was that one improvement over old tackle that has made a significant difference (among others) has been the different materials used for drag washers.  The more I thought about this, the more I realized how true this is.  After having enough experience, I moved from casting 6/0 Penn Senator and Pfleuger Templar reels to the 9/0 size reels.  This was primarily because the brakes could not be applied strong enough to prevent the reel from being stripped of line.  The 9/0 Senator has substantially stronger brakes than the old 6/0 and slightly better braking than the Special 6/0 because the gear ratio of the Special was slightly higher.

So, I've come to the point of thinking that I need a reel that will hold at least 200 yards of 80 lb test (mono), which is about what a regular 4/0 will hold.  It needs to be light so it can be cast, and the brakes need to be exceptionally strong (30+ pounds would not be excessive).  Clearly, the gears and the rest of the reel would need to be able to withstand the torque involved.

I've already ruled out the Senator 4/0 because the brakes and gears probably won't be strong enough.  Maybe the spool shaft might be too small too.  I've also ruled out the Newell reels because they are just not strong enough (gears in particular).  I tried the Penn International 50 and it's too heavy.  I've heard others have used various products from Shimano and Diawa (I think).  I'm not familiar with those products so I'd like members' opinions on what might be the best reel for my purpose.

Remember, the primary considerations are:
1) At least 200 yards of 80 lb. mono;
2) Light enough to cast (far);
3) Very strong drag, gears, and overall construction.

I'd appreciate your input.

[redsetta]

G'day Makule,
I know you ruled out a Penn 4/0, but this is something special:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=3083.msg20871#msg20871
High-speed S/S gears, S/S gear sleeve, double S/S dogs, upgraded frame, 25-odd lbs of drag etc...
(I have a narrow Tib frame/spool on mine - much like Sal's - which holds about 250 yards of 50lb Momoi.)
But I like the old stuff.  
Sounds like a Makaira 10II (among several others) would probably fit the bill more adequately...
Looking forward to others' input.
All the best, Justin

[alantani]

here is something to consider.  imagine how far you could cast with 20# mono!!!!!  well, 80 # spectra has the diameter of 15-20# mono.  a reel the size of a squidder could easily hold 250 yards of 80# spectra.  you are looking at a 5 fold increase in performance using spectra over mono.  the trick is to find a reel that is the same size as a squidder while delivering 5 times the drag! 

hey, how about a makaira 10 that is strung with 80# spectra?  set the drag to 24 pounds and go kill something!

[Makule]

Spectra has some very good qualities but abrasion resistance is not one of them.  That is the reason I need to use 80 mono.  That size/type of line has sufficient tensile strength and abrasion resistance for casting here.  Since we're not on a boat, all of the lines are lying fairly close to the bottom and the pull is pretty much parallel to the bottom.  If the fish is running and starts going sideways, any protruding rock/reef that the line touches will immediately cut the line since there's so much stress on it.  We've also tried running very loose drags but that results in different problems and the undesired end result is the same.

I was hoping that technology had advanced to the point that smaller/lighter reels would have been made to handle the higher strength of the braided lines (meaning, stronger gears, brakes, etc), while still maintaining a size that could hold at least 200 yards of mono (4/0 size).  I know that some very strong reels are made, but they either don't have the capacity or are heavy.

The MK10II doesn't have sufficient capacity and the MK20II would be the minimum appropriate size.  At that size the weight is about 3 pounds and already too heavy for this old man.

[Bryan Young]

Ooh, do I have a chance?  I've been trying to convince my friend to use spectra for years not, but still, only 1 or 2 biters, and loving it.  The rigging technique will need to change though.  Granted, I haven't fished 80# since high school, but I have done this with 40# set-up.

I run a 50# solid spectra that I splice on a 60# hollow core (for transistion) then splice on my 40# top shot.  For casters, this may be known as rub lines.  The rub lines are 50' or so long.  And that is tied to my leader (via swivel) and then stopper ring to weight line to wired weight (weight with wire in the rear that will grab onto the rocks or dig into the sand).  The 50' rub line will takes the abration abuse and not the spectra.  Works very effectively and you can adjust the lenght of the rub line based on where you are fishing and how high the coral may be extending off the bottom.  Once the run line clears the guides, you have 4 times smaller line flowing through the guides (less resistance) allowing you to cast farther.  You could also increase the rub lines to 100# or more also depending on the coral that is round.

Do you know Duane Fukumoto?  He's been on Hawaii Goes Fishing demonstrating this techniquie.  He uses rub lines to 25', 150-400# test rub lines on his casting gear.

With that, you could use a Makaira 10 or 15 and have plenty of line.

Other benefits is lever drag (adjustable braking) and 2 speed if the fish decides to hold ground, it's easier to pull the fish slowing then pumping.

[redsetta]

Great post Bryan - will definitely look into all this in more detail.
Cheers, Justin

[Bryan Young]

In my infinite time, I'll put together my splices.  I'm sure others have better splices though.

Alan,

May I borrow your BlackWater Splicing vice again?

[alantani]

a friend borrowed it.  i should have it back in a week. 

[Makule]

I actually do use Spectra for different applications and feel it's a great product, much better than mono for those things I use it for.  For casting, since we're fishing very rocky grounds, it doesn't work.  I know that some guys use Spectra for backing but my experience does not support it.

When Spectra lines first came out, I bought a 1000 yard spool (think it was something like 150 lb test) and filled my 9/0 with it.  All 1000 yards went in.  The very first time I used it, there was a huge shark strike that almost emptied the reel.  Although the shark did stop, I could not gain any line and after a while swimming left and right, the line finally hit a reef and I was left with about 100 yards.  The cost of the line at the time was over $100 for the spool so it was a very expensive lesson.

During my very early days of casting, we were getting a lot of cut-offs from the line rubbing on the rocks.  Often, the rod would go down just once and the rod would come back up because the line got cut off.  It happens that fast, sometimes.  It got so frustrating that at one point I was using 30 feet of nylon coated stranded wire as the "rub line". 

Using a lot of wire did not work much better because once the fish starts going sideways (and they invariably will), the line has the whole length that's out to snag on something and get cut.  One cannot correctly conclude that it's just x number of feet about the hook that will snag a reef and provide that much rub line.  The two examples I've provided demonstrate that fact.  Consequently, I try to use the most abrasion resistant line I can find, that is still castable and affordable.  Hawaii island fishing is "different" and the three top gunners I know all do not use Spectra backing precisely because of what I've described.  They all use the 60 to 80 setup.

Incidentally, I do use two-speed reels (50s and 80s) for non-casting applications and find them to be great.  My wife will not fish with anything else.

Ooh, do I have a chance?  I've been trying to convince my friend to use spectra for years not, but still, only 1 or 2 biters, and loving it.  The rigging technique will need to change though.  Granted, I haven't fished 80# since high school, but I have done this with 40# set-up.

I run a 50# solid spectra that I splice on a 60# hollow core (for transistion) then splice on my 40# top shot.  For casters, this may be known as rub lines.  The rub lines are 50' or so long.  And that is tied to my leader (via swivel) and then stopper ring to weight line to wired weight (weight with wire in the rear that will grab onto the rocks or dig into the sand).  The 50' rub line will takes the abration abuse and not the spectra.  Works very effectively and you can adjust the lenght of the rub line based on where you are fishing and how high the coral may be extending off the bottom.  Once the run line clears the guides, you have 4 times smaller line flowing through the guides (less resistance) allowing you to cast farther.  You could also increase the rub lines to 100# or more also depending on the coral that is round.

Do you know Duane Fukumoto?  He's been on Hawaii Goes Fishing demonstrating this techniquie.  He uses rub lines to 25', 150-400# test rub lines on his casting gear.

With that, you could use a Makaira 10 or 15 and have plenty of line.

Other benefits is lever drag (adjustable braking) and 2 speed if the fish decides to hold ground, it's easier to pull the fish slowing then pumping.

[alantani]

Remember, the primary considerations are:
1) At least 200 yards of 80 lb. mono;
2) Light enough to cast (far);
3) Very strong drag, gears, and overall construction.

I'd appreciate your input.

how much weight are you casting, and how far does it have to go?

[Ratchet]

Just about the only star drag reel that might work for your style of fishing would be the Shimano Torium 50 or Trinidad 50.  The use of heavy drags means a reel built with lots of metal and that increases the weight of the reel.

I use a Newell 646-3 with 80 lb mono but I can only handle, at most, about 15 lbs of drag on a 13 ft slidebait rod safely, more if I fight with the pole in the rod holder.

[CapeFish]

Makule, I am also a shore based angler and understand your reluctance to use spectra, especially over rocky grounds. It gets extremely expensive if you fluff a cast or break off. I fish 200m topshot of .55mm mono (around 45lb) over about 500m spectra on my heavy rigs and I have gone through 1000m mono in a few fishing outings recently, hooking up on kelp, rocks, one way slides burning off etc. Putting in long casts with a 14ft rod and 8 oz sinker is scary stuff with spectra.

Why don't you look at getting a Trinidad 50? Put a few 100m of 80lb braid on as backing (say 300m) and fill up 200yds with that 80lb cable for topshot. The drag on a 50 is potent and it actually casts pretty ok, I am sure much better than a 9/0. Alternatively why don't you rather use 50lb 200yd topshot which will allow for more backing and then add about a 10m wind on leader of say around 1.5mm. So if a fish dives for the bricks, or a shark rolls you have that leader helping you. Fit the reel at the bottom, it is much easier for casting and fighting a fish.

Apologies for jumping between SI and imperial, I am from the other side of the Atlantic.

[CapeFish]

Just about the only star drag reel that might work for your style of fishing would be the Shimano Torium 50 or Trinidad 50.  The use of heavy drags means a reel built with lots of metal and that increases the weight of the reel.

I use a Newell 646-3 with 80 lb mono but I can only handle, at most, about 15 lbs of drag on a 13 ft slidebait rod safely, more if I fight with the pole in the rod holder.

There we go here's a second vote for Trini/Torium 50

[Keta]

here is something to consider.  imagine how far you could cast with 20# mono!!!!!  well, 80 # spectra has the diameter of 15-20# mono.  

Spectra is also much lighter than mono so it casts further and some of the coated braids have better abrasion resistance.   Probably not enough for coral.

Is the heavy mono getting abraided?

[Bryan Young]

If that is the case, Trinis are no longer available in 50s size, so Torium 50 would be the next choice.  Upgrade the drags and dogs is a must.  Toriums come with silent dogs, and not engage sometime, esp. if there's too much grease.

If you are interested in a lever drag, Talica II 25 or 50.  25 holds about 200 yards of 80# mono and 50 holds more than 300 yards of mono.  Spec drag range looks good...could pull you off the cliff at South Point.

Some casters are trying out Penn's Squall LD60.  Holds about 220 yards of 80# mono.  Spec says max drag at strike is 20#.

By the way, even though you are fishing with 80#, what drag setting are you fishing with?