questions about line selection & application

[Hankzudd]

i've read things here & other places i need better answers for;

1) do spinning reels do worse with braid than conventional reels? (450SS, 550SS, 850SS & Btl II 6000)

2) why use braid on conventional reels, then mono? what size under & what size over, how much of each (% wise) for lets say jigging with 4/0 113H2 in depths from 50-200'.

3) does using 30lb mono then 10' 15lb fluro leader make sense on a Battle II 6000 for pier/jetty fishing w/cut bait on dropper loop?

place i'd be fishing the most is (old bridge) fishing pier, jettys, fish passes (more jettys) & some surf fishing, when i'm not getting on a party boat for offshore trips in south Texas.

really looking forward to (one day) going back to the Keys & fishing the bridges north of Key West.

[alantani]

line twist is an issue for both reels.  when it gets bad, the line can twist up into a knot and break.  seen that a couple of times. 

for braid choices, check below. 

not sure what the line capacities are for the different battles, but i generally would not ever recommend a mono to fluoro connection.  i consider it unreliable. 

i wrote this for guys that want to put together different line class outfits for san diego long range.  you find it to be an interesting read. 

a friend was asking about setting the drags on his penn 20 and 50 visx reels. most of you know this already, but i thought it might be worth posting for the rest. this is my opinion only. do whatever works for you.

when setting the drags, here's what i do. the 20 visx should have a 100 pound topshot. set the drag to 50 pounds at full, then back the lever to free and mark 10, 20, 30 and 40 pounds. go back to 30 pounds and set the strike stopper there. now run the lever through the numbers and double check the settings. sometimes they change a little as the drag washer gets mashed down. i use a scale and do a straight pull off the reel.

the 50 visx should have a 130 pound topshot. set the drag to at least 60 pounds at full. go to 65 if you can. then repeat the above process, marking the drag settings every ten pounds. back the lever off to the 40 pound spot and set the strike stopper there.

ideally, i would like to see 30% at strike and 50% at full for all the reels in EVERY line class. that is not always possible. for those reels with a fixed strike stopper (like every other reel made), go with 30% at strike and just note what you have at full.

to choose a line class for a reel, there are several considerations. one is the drag range, the other is line capacity. for drag range, you push the lever back to free and spin the spool. as the spool is spinning, you tighten down the drag preset knob until you lose freespool, then stop. now you back off the preset knob a click at a time until you get back freespool that you are happy with. then check the drag at strike. this number is "the maximum drag at strike before you lose freespool." now you know the strike drag, so you can choose a topshot weight. then push the lever to full and measure the drag. this is the full drag range of the reel. and just to see how "fishable" your reel is, push the lever to free and try to ease the lever up through the numbers. if that first push is too hard, then the cam might be considered by some to be too aggressive. (yes, i would rather not open that can of worms right now.)

line capacity is the second consideration. i have my preferences. figure that these numbers can easily be plus or minus 50 yards. and these are my personal preferences for west coast tuna fishing only. remember, you have never seen me target bills or sails. you guys who do can do your own thing. for a given fluoro topshot weight, the braid line weight, and the braid line capacity......

30# fluoro - 40, 50, 60 or 65 pound hollow or solid braid - 300 yards
40# fluoro - 50, 60 or 65 pound hollow or solid braid - 350 yards
50# fluoro - 60 hollow or 65 solid braid - 400 yards
60# fluoro - 60 or 80 pound hollow - 450 yards
80# fluoro - 80-100 pound hollow - 500 yards
100# fluoro or mono - 100 pound hollow - 600 yards
130# fluoro or mono - 130 pound hollow - 700 yards

personally, i would rather see you fishing hollow core braid only at your level. and mostly fluoro, too! mono should work well enough for jigs or deep drop and it will save you some money. topshot lengths? as long or short as you want, figure 10-30 yards in most cases.

hope this helps!

[Gfish]

Great stuff, here, thanks.

Like to add to with a question; Old monofilament: any opinions, or experiential knowledge, about age and possible degradation? You know, the stuff with dust on it, old looking labels, maybe in the bargain-bin.
Stiffness, strength loss, etc.?

[alantani]

i know that guys fish the same line a couple of seasons in a row.  you can get away with that if the line is really heavy.  in general, i would replace any line weight each year.  for some super light line applications, i would replace line every trip.  it all depends on your tolerance for potential failure.   

[Rivverrat]

 
 You have different thoughts please speak up.

 My experience has been that the mono lines I've used can be kept & stored for sometime.

 The key to this seems to be that it needs to be in a cool dry place.

 Sun light, heat & water will weaken mono in storage. This coming directly from the line maker Ande.

 Maybe I & others have been doing it wrong when it comes to storing fluoro.
 I & others I know, haven't had much success storing flouro for a year or more.

 On a different note  ... if u take a very popular line like Trilene BG
60 line that I use regularly,  set your drag for 20 lbs. , tie it off then run 25 yards off 10 times, less or more.

 After doing this make a cast then pinch the line in your thumb & index finger while retrieving. You will feel places in the line that are beginning to crack or seperate.

 In some cases the only way around this is to use a line class two steps above your drag range. This can bring about other issues.

 There are others however I have found Ande Monster 60 to be one of the least effected by this. While using a diameter for line class that is only slightly bigger in diameter than Big Game. However Ande Monster is not in any way the end all line to use for every situation ... Jeff

[Hankzudd]

i fished alot in LoCal years ago (San Diego), offshore & local;
guy told me "how much did you spend getting on this boat?, and how much does new line (mono) cost?"

makes sense to me--don't lose a fish cause you "think" ur line is still good;

i change 20lb and less at least once a year (depends on where i've been fishing-Jetty, etc)
and closely check anything heavier than that; braid is another story

light & heat degrades mono if not store properly

[jurelometer]

We covered nylon mono degradation on another thread.

Most line manufacturers don't provide a straight answer.  They don't provide  a shelf life or print "use by" date on the spools, but do encourage us to replace fairly frequently (i.e., buy more line . ). That is because the stuff is pretty indestructible if stored correctly.

There was one German line company that did address this, and the description  was in line with the properties of nylon in general that are available in the materials  databases.

If I see the link again, I will post it, but it goes like this:

1.  UV light is the big issue.  Even the minimal amount of UV light that makes it through a glass window with daylight can damage line sitting on the shelf for a long time. Outside and fishing is a lot worse.  But the UV exposure range is so variable, it is hard to pick a fishing time range.  A test with scale is all that is necessary to find out if the line is still useful.

2. Age in general Is not an issue.  Nylon needs something to cause it to break down.  No daylight, no exposure to solvents, only leaves us with  oxidation, which is going to take many decades to start to have an effect.

3.  Atmospheric moisture is not  an issue,  Nylon readily absorbs water up to some maximum (anywhere from 1.5% to over 10%, depending on the formula).  Water acts a  plasticizer on nylon, so your line gets limper and stretchier when you put it it the water.  But this effect is temporary. If you store your nylon line in a very dry environment, it will become stiffer, but it will adjust back one you move it to a more humid environment.

When you read about water effecting nylon structure, this is referring to making parts out of nylon.  The water content needs to be low and tightly controlled when using nylon stock for things like injection molding and 3D printing.

4. Heat in storage is not an issue.  Nylon is a thermoplastic. It is actually melted to be formed.   The sort of temperatures that we typically expose nylon line to (even in a hot car trunk) won't change the molecular structure.  I know this is not what tackle shops and some line manufacturers will tell us, but try asking what the actual breakdown mechanism is and at what temperature, and judge for yourself.

5. Creep/Elongation.  Actually using the line causes it to stretch.  If you pull too hard, maybe fighting a big fish, it can stretch past the point of elasticity, and it will elongate.  Packing the line on the reel below max elasticity will cause it to temporarily stretch but eventually permanently elongate over time (creep).  Elongating causes thinner diameter, thinner diameter means less breaking strength.  Usually we are talking smaller numbers for degradation from creep.

So my take is that if you store the line in a dark place and haven't fished it yet, you are fine.  If you are very obsessive and want absolute maximum strength, don't spool up mono until right before your trip (but this is getting kinda weird).

If you are not quite as obsessive, consider replacing the line after landing that monster fish under high drag.  This also removes the risk of not seeing some abrasion that would require replacing the line.

Getting in to the more normal human behavior range - we are now doing a risk reward tradeoff for UV exposure, which is a bit of a wildcard.  If landing every possible fish is important, then change more frequently.  If UV damage  gets really bad, the line usually starts getting cloudy.  You can cut off some line and fish with a less full reel or change out the whole thing. 

Some pangeros that I fish with prefer to get maximum usage, even if it means losing some fish.  Line is not that cheap for them, and there are always more fish to catch. Back when those long ranger sporfishers chasing cow tuna used mono, they seemed to respool at every opportunity.  Catch a big tuna, respool.  Catch a shark, respool.  Sneeze on the line, respool... . Probably do the same thing with mono topshots nowadays, but at least it takes less line.

-J