Restoring a Penn Senator 114-H Questions

[Mrdrake2221]

Hi, my name is Matt and I'm new here. 

I have been looking thru posts for two days and am in the process of "Reconditioning" a penn senator 114-H that was my great grandfathers.  It was probably built in the early 70s from what I can tell. 

So far its going pretty good.  Let me tell you where I'm at.  This is the first time I have taken apart this reel. 

I soaked the metal chrome pieces in vinegar over night.  Polished everything with chrome polish.  Cleaned the plastic with penn reel cleaner. 

I ordered the upgraded ht 100 drag which will be here next Monday 12/12/22

Here are some questions.

1. When I put the drag washers in upon reassembly should I lubricate them with drag specific grease or something else. 

2. I cannot find replacement ball bearings although I think mine are in decent shape.  How should I go about cleaning them and lubricating them for proper function. 

3.  The only other part I can't find is 4-114 which is the fiber washer that sits inside of the main gear. I read on here some people put in a carbon or Derlin/Acetal washer instead.  Where can I find this kind of washer that is the correct size (I dont know the exact size).

4. The vinegar and chrome polish did good on the rust.  But is there anyway too completely remove all the pitting or corrosion theres still alot of brown spots where the green corrosion was. 

Any other tips would be much appreciated as I have never taken apart this kind of reel before.  My goal is too be able to use it again. 


Also it was a steel main gear not brass. 

[thorhammer]

Cal's drag grease on the HT100's- you can get it from Mystic Parts, and most any other parts you need including the undergear washer. I believe the drag washer from a HT 100 stack to a 114 (smaller gears) will work if you want a carbon undergear. You'll have to check the number on Mystic schematic for 114. Note, make sure you are looking at 114, 114H or HL models and not H2 as they may have some differences on various parts.

Soak the bearings in a sealed jar of lighter fluid. I use a pimento jar and it doesnt waste a lot of fluid, and you can shake the bearings periodically to get to clean. This is assuming you dont want to pull the shields. Generally speaking, Senator 6/0's aren't used on long running fish as in the old days, so unless the bearings are corroded, they are unlikely to be worn out. Let them dry, and spray with TS321 or Corrosion X (I use the latter). You aren't likely to be casting it so even 3-in-1 will work if that's what you have. Something is better than nothing but prolly not WD-40.

You might scrub the chrome with baking soda and vinegar paste. Unfortunately, past that, you're into steel wool of cutting compound and that will get the verdigris off, but leave raw brass. If you do that, may want to clear coat it with poly or something- but this can also make the rings snug on the plates with reels of that age. Were me I'd get it clean and waxed / greased against corrosion and fish the crap out of it, and just clean and wipe it down well after every trip. that reel will go another 40 years.

John

[Bryan Young]

I'm glad that you are trying to save your great grandfather's reel.

Here are my responses.

1. When I put the drag washers in upon reassembly should I lubricate them with drag specific grease or something else.

If you are planning to fish the reel, I would use Cal's Universal and Drag Grease.  If you are not planning to fish the reel, I would leave the drag washers dry.

2. I cannot find replacement ball bearings although I think mine are in decent shape.  How should I go about cleaning them and lubricating them for proper function.

Mystic Reel Parts should have the proper bearings.  Unfortunately, I cannot recall the dimensions by heart.  Someone else will need to chime in unless you are able to measure the bearing yourself with veneer calipers.

3.  The only other part I can't find is 4-114 which is the fiber washer that sits inside of the main gear. I read on here some people put in a carbon or Derlin/Acetal washer instead.  Where can I find this kind of washer that is the correct size (I dont know the exact size).

I would use a 6-114 or 6-115 HT-100 drag washer.  I prefer 6-114 because it will not interfere with the anti-reverse dawg whatsoever.  It's possible that the 6-115 will since it's larger than the gear sleeve ratchet.

4. The vinegar and chrome polish did good on the rust.  But is there anyway too completely remove all the pitting or corrosion theres still alot of brown spots where the green corrosion was. 

The only way you remove the pitting is if you remove all of the chrome and polish, re-chrome, paint,... the rings.  Another option is to buy new rings available at Mystic Reel Parts.

One last comment regarding installing a 6-114HSP drag kit or any non-stock kit for that matter.  I believe that some of the steel gears are provided with slots that do not go all the way down the gear, and therefore, the 5-stack/7-stack drag kit will not slide all the way down. The only solution is to double or triple up on the carbon fiber drag washer until the eared washers are sitting will in the slots of the main gear without obstruction when the drag set is fully compressed.  I'm sorry, I don't have a photo of the gear to show you what I mean.

[JasonGotaProblem]

Bryan I noticed that on gears from a 500S I'm reusing. So i took out the dremel and made the slots reach the bottom of the stack. I guess we'll see how that goes.

[Mrdrake2221]

Thanks so much for the quick responses.  I really appreciate you taking the time too give me such good information.  So Im about to order cals drag grease and the 6-114 washer from mystic parts. 

How many additional drag washers should i order.  The kit that I bought off ebay came with 11 washers, 6 metal and 5 carbon.  Your saying thats not enough?

[Gfish]

The ball bearings; only 1 side available if you get them in/with the cups(best IMO)from Penn-Mystic Parts. But they are expensive. They can be a bear to remove from the cups and might be damaged in the process. Maybe the originals are already in bad shape? But as the Thorhammer alluded to, they can still be functional, maybe just noisy. In that case, packed with grease, they might work fine, unless you are casting with it.
If you can remove them from the cups and measure them, replacements are available. Heat and a bearing puller tool might get 'em out, if stuck.

[Mrdrake2221]

The bearings I am going too attempt too clean and re lube before I buy new ones.  The reel was corroded but the handle turned freely pretty good it was stored in a garage for who knows how long. 

When it comes to bearings, should I grease or put lube on them?  I know corrosion x was mentioned but right now all I have is Penn Reel Grease and Penn Lube.  I have always lubed my bearings but I dont know if thats correct?  If they are not corroded do I need Corrosion X

[thorhammer]

Thanks, Bry-Bry, the 6-114 was the number I couldn't recall. Aside, I tried out the UV cure idea we had to repaint rings, and didn't find it any better than auto rattle-can and baking.

Mr. Drake, you'd have to pull the shields off to get the Penn stuff into the bearings, and it would impact free spool as being thicker but certainly a good protectant. As Greg stated, getting bearing out of cup could be a bear, and I think you'd have to in order to pull shields off. Try some 3-n-1, available anywhere, whereas Corrosion X isn't, after you soak in lighter fluid. Plenty of tutorials on here about it but put a LIGHT coat of your Penn blue on the gears and internal metals- bridge plate, etc. and clicker assembly, all screw threads including sleeve. This will be a better lubed reel than many thousands of Senators that are fishing for decades and have never been serviced, and still going, and as you will now be versed in its service you will easily be able to pop it open for periodic maintenance. The HT100s will last a long while, especially if Cal-greased.

Again, Mystic has Cals as well as 6-114. As to your drag washers, Bryan is the expert on the stacking question.

[Mrdrake2221]

Thanks for the great response thorhammer

[Bill B]

All good advice, John and Bryan have seen the insides of of more 114's than I will ever see.  The 114H is a work horse of a reel and will give you many years of good service.  Bill

[Mrdrake2221]

One last comment regarding installing a 6-114HSP drag kit or any non-stock kit for that matter.  I believe that some of the steel gears are provided with slots that do not go all the way down the gear, and therefore, the 5-stack/7-stack drag kit will not slide all the way down. The only solution is to double or triple up on the carbon fiber drag washer until the eared washers are sitting will in the slots of the main gear without obstruction when the drag set is fully compressed.  I'm sorry, I don't have a photo of the gear to show you what I mean.
[/quote]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/374379528187?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=XouXfLTBTsK&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=002OQnvmQIK&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

This is the kit I ordered can you elaborate or tell me how many additional drag washers I need, too order.  I ordered that kit and one additional 6-114 washer and was going to put that on the inside of the main gear

[Shellbelly]

In addition to the great suggestions above, I would find another used reel to keep on hand for quick spare parts.  Things can become hard to find.

[Maxed Out]

 If the slots inside the gear don't go down far enough, then you'll need to drill the slots deeper.....OR you can use 1 of the original thick metal keyed washers on top of the first drag washer. Itis thicker than the washers in a new 5 stack. This will stop your first eared washer from bottoming out on the slots that aren't deep enough. The 7 stack won't work this way. The 5 stack is the one you'll want to use

[Bryan Young]

Thanks so much for the quick responses.  I really appreciate you taking the time too give me such good information.  So Im about to order cals drag grease and the 6-114 washer from mystic parts. 

How many additional drag washers should i order.  The kit that I bought off ebay came with 11 washers, 6 metal and 5 carbon.  Your saying thats not enough?

I've been using 6-114 for under the main gear. It sounds like that is the only washer you are missing.

[day0ne]

3.  The only other part I can't find is 4-114 which is the fiber washer that sits inside of the main gear. I read on here some people put in a carbon or Derlin/Acetal washer instead.  Where can I find this kind of washer that is the correct size (I dont know the exact size).

Just an FYI. The fiber washer doesn't sit inside of the main gear, it sits underneath it.