Carbontex drag washers

[LanceV]

Are you supposed to grease both sides of the carbontex washer on the single speed TLDs ?

[LanceV]

Or any reel for that matter ? Thanks

[handi2]

Grease the spool where the drag washer sits. Don't wipe it off

Grease the drag washer them wipe it all iff

[LanceV]

Ok one more ?  On other reels with drag stacks you grease then wipe  off except the one against the spool? Is that correct ?

[Keta]

Grease both sides.  On star drag reels I wipe off excess greasebut do not get carried away, on lever drag reels I wipe of all of the grease.

[jurelometer]

Grease the spool where the drag washer sits. Don't wipe it off

Grease the drag washer them wipe it all iff

This is important advice. 

Any time you have carbon fiber in direct contact with aluminum in a saltwater reel, you are asking for trouble. From what I have read, carbon fiber to stainless is usually not that bad as long as the stainless has formed or can reform an oxidized surface.

Most of us know about galvanic corrosion caused by dissimilar metals and seawater, but it is not as well known (including at some reel companies) that this also applies to carbon fiber, and carbon fiber (graphite) is about as bad as it gets. This is because graphite is a very good conductor of electricity. 

If you look at the galvanic corrosion tables, graphite is at the cathodic extreme, and aluminum alloys at the anodic extreme.  Add seawater and you make a very good battery that will corrode the aluminum quickly.

[Edit: Corrections in the paragraph below.  Thanks to Mike (PacRat)! ]

The greater the contact surface area, the faster the corrosion. The higher the ratio of catholic to anodic surface area, the greater the corrosion potential. 
Only the small spots with defects or scratches through the anodized layer will be anodic, so the ratio can be quite large here. Grease will provide a protective barrier. 

Regarding other reels, some "brilliant" reel designs bonded the drag disk to the aluminum spool.  If any seawater seeps into a gap, there is not much that can be done.  Maybe Keith or others have applied extra grease around the edge of the disk to help keep water out from under a glued on CF disk?

-J

[LanceV]

Ok thanks for the replies. very much appreciated

[PacRat]

"The beauty of anodising is that because it is an insulator and not a metal, it is compatible with all other common metals (from a galvanic perspective) by virtue of being non-conductive. This means, that it is acceptable to use stainless steel, zinc coated steel, titanium, nickel and others in contact with anodised components. Although care may be necessary to ensure that the harder metals do not scratch the anodising. Some metals such as mercury or gallium should never be used in contact with aluminium because they can diffuse into the aluminium and cause catastrophic failures."

I found this while looking for a galvanic reaction chart that would include anodised aluminum. Couldn't find a chart that has anodised but this information makes me feel better. I am worried that anodising could wear off under the friction from carbon fiber.

[pointbob]

I fish the pacific northwet. I use abu reels like 5500. The carbon drag washers are sandwiched between stainless washers. Should I apply grease or not?

[PacRat]

I always grease carbontex drags...always.

[Keta]

I fish the pacific northwet. I use abu reels like 5500. The carbon drag washers are sandwiched between stainless washers. Should I apply grease or not?

I would.  I am in S. OR on the  dry side of the Cascades.

[sciaenops]

I fish the pacific northwet. I use abu reels like 5500. The carbon drag washers are sandwiched between stainless washers. Should I apply grease or not?

I would.  I am in S. OR on the  dry side of the Cascades.

Geography matters lol

[jurelometer]

"The beauty of anodising is that because it is an insulator and not a metal, it is compatible with all other common metals (from a galvanic perspective) by virtue of being non-conductive. This means, that it is acceptable to use stainless steel, zinc coated steel, titanium, nickel and others in contact with anodised components. Although care may be necessary to ensure that the harder metals do not scratch the anodising. Some metals such as mercury or gallium should never be used in contact with aluminium because they can diffuse into the aluminium and cause catastrophic failures."

I found this while looking for a galvanic reaction chart that would include anodised aluminum. Couldn't find a chart that has anodised but this information makes me feel better. I am worried that anodising could wear off under the friction from carbon fiber.

Oooh, interesting- but I have actually seen this happen.

But OTOH, you are right. If the aluminum oxide is non-conductive than no galvanic corrosion.  Time for some web sleuthing...

[pause]

OK... I think it works like this:  The ratio of cathode to anode surface areas is what controls the rate of corrosion, not the combined contact area as I had  posted.  The greater the ratio of cathode to anode surface area, the greater the corrosion potential. This makes anodizing a high risk proposition, as a tiny defect or scratch is worse than no anodizing at all, as only the defective area is acting as an anode.   

There is an assertion that the galvanic corrosion rate of aluminum could be mitigated by the anodization of aluminum and the formation of a thick, protective aluminum oxide layer on the surface. However, it has to be mentioned that in the case of a breach of the oxide layer by mechanical damage, the situation becomes much worse due to a really high cathode-to-anode surface area ratio (Ac/Aa).

source:https://www.corrosionpedia.com/galvanic-corrosion-of-metals-connected-to-carbon-fiber-reinforced-polymers/2/1556

And typical fishing reel type II anodizing is usually not exactly perfectly executed.


The carbon fiber should only be able to slide on the stainless drag plate, not the spool. That is why lever drag washers have ears.

I think the problem and advice is still correct, but I sure got a little sideways on the mechanism. I guess I should have also noted that I am not trained in this stuff 

Thanks for correcting me! 

-J

[handi2]

Well I guess the hundreds of TLD's I have done and the hundreds that Alan Tani has done were wrong?
Look at Alan's TLD tutorials.

You grease the anodized spool to stop corrosion. The spool and drag washer do get wet with saltwater.

Shown are pictures from the boss's tutorial.

Also brush some Cals grease on the threads of the drag cover. It will make disassembly much easier.

Keith


Enjoy

[Keta]

CF is porous and salt water can get in the fibers causing issue that greasing both sides and the edges cures.   Salt accumulation in the carbon fibers can cause rough drag and will eventualy pit spools and drag disks.

BTW  The ears keep a greased CF washer from "sliding on the spool".