Coxe 10-C Rehab: Noise Reduction in DD Reels

[Paul Roberts]

When I set out to acquire some old direct drive (DD) reels to fish with, I made a list of the models I'd like to try, mostly the higher end models of the day. Might as well start with quality components. After all, these reels have been around a while.

On my list were the J.A. Coxe "Cross-Bolt" reels produced by Bronson. The Cross-Bolt idea was to suspend the spool on two bearings on a central axle. Shakespeare followed suit with their Tru-Axis reels. Much later, ABU pursued this path with their Ultra Cast, then redesigned Ultracast, spools.

I purchased a single example each of the model 10C and the economy version model 60, and found both to be nice casters. The 10 however was a bit of a complainer. So I set out to troubleshoot it.

Common trouble spots tend to be: clacking caused by movement of the main gear; the spool spindle ends clicking against their end cap thrust bearings, or vibrating within the spindle shaft bearings; and really any metal to metal contact areas. Esp prone are those that have high rpm's associated, they being most apt to wear and then vibrate. At high speed they can really complain. Gear tooth wear tends to produce a buzz that can be annoying, however, this has been somewhat rare in the casting reels I've worked with. Or at least not intolerable. But wear noise is not uncommon in well-used spinning reels.

Photos below show some examples of noise issues in DD reels I've run into:

1). For the main gear post I've found a piece of heat shrink tubing can make a good bearing surface that takes up the space the post can rattle around in. Does not appear to affect casting performance much, if at all.

2). Main spool spindle bearings can get worn, esp on those that have been spun dry (unlubricated) for long. My god this SB model 50 screamed! Only fix here is replacing entire side plates from a donor reel. Or, just adding the offending reel itself to the bone pile. Still open to creative ideas though.

3). Levelwind mechanisms on DD reels create the most drag on casting, so they must be in top shape, and properly lubed. Here's a LW end bearing in a Pflueger Supreme that was run dry for too long and became cupped, resulting in a resonant howl. A donor inner plate helped a lot.

4, 5). On my Coxe 10C I found this: a worn/abraded LW worm gear end. So I found a replacement. This, along with a main post heat-shrink "bearing", some serious polishing of all metal to metal contact areas, and going to a more viscous oil, silenced all complaints! This 10C just purrs now. Really happy with this one. BTW: That's hockey tape on the handle grips, for an easier grip when wet.

[oldmanjoe]

Heat shrink for a bearing surface / filler .   Interesting ,I would like to see how that works out and see if it has a reaction to oil and grease .

[Paul Roberts]

So far, no reaction to synthetic oils for better than a year. Haven't had a good fishing season behind it though. That will be the real test.

[oldmanjoe]

 I usually use brass tubing and a reamer to make the fit , but i think i will try the heat shrink for a non load bearing surface .  I guess you can double up if you need more thickness pretty easy also .

[Paul Roberts]

Try it and let me know what you find. The heat shrink can be shrunk to fit. I believe it's 3/8in tubing that's fit, so far, Coxe and Shakespeare posts. I'm figuring out stuff as I go and willing to get creative. Again, remains to be seen what a long fishing season will show.

[Sonnett]

Paul I will be very interested in how the heat shrink tubing holds up to a season of heavy use. Can you tell me what the actual material is that the shrink tubing is made from? Speaking of bearing ware, I has a Summit a few years ago that was quiet and smooth when spun moderately in the hand, but when filled with line and cast the noise was atrocious. Careful inspection finally located the problem. The end bearing on the face plate was worn to an oval shape. The bearing on the palm plate was fine. I surmised that this wear was from the combination of poor lubrication and the torque when cranking that was exerted on the pinion gear.

[Paul Roberts]

Hi, Bill, Joe, I found this on the web:

"The most commonly used material for heat shrink tubing is polyolefin. Polyolefin is a very durable material with a high temperature threshold, which for good use in applications that have high operating temperatures like manufacturing, mechanical, and industrial settings."

Interesting, that Summit. Can't quite imagine someone fishing through that ever worsening noise. Kinda makes me cringe. Then again, I used to think that spinning reels are just generally noisy whirring things, until I started looking close, listening to, and replacing, parts.

I've seen some other torquing issues, notably with Shakespeare reels. In particular, bent handles. Seems Shakespeare, and South Bend, handles are on the soft side. I also had a Shaky come in with a cracked main gear! I remember you telling me that you'd seen that too. Obviously, some of these older reels were built for light to medium duty work. Good to know bc I am not unaccustomed to winching bass from cover. Might need to save that kind of action for more modern reels.

[Paul Roberts]

Well, I spoke too soon. After some casting, (and the extra oil bath spinning off?), my 10C is still somewhat noisy at high rpm's. Not a deal breaker, but noticeably louder than the model 60 I have. The 60 shows less wear and is nicely quiet, just a turbine-like whir. The 10C, although tight and smooth, still gives off a grindy whir when cast.

Back at the bench to check for spool bearing and gear wear, the isolated spool and axle were essentially silent. Gears look ok under a hand lens, with most wear (some brinneling) on the spool pinion teeth. The noise may be in the gears, and resonates within the head plate/cap.

Since the most wear appeared to be in the spool pinion, replacing it might be an option, although this ever narrowing path can get costly. And there's no guarantee it'll do the trick. But, I happen to have the quiet running model 60, so I swapped spool pinions between them. And... the spool pinion isn't the entire issue with this 10C. The 60 may have been a little louder, and the 10 a tad quieter -maybe. But not enough. The 10C was still the louder of the two.

Not sure where to go from here, beyond accepting that this 10C sounds like a late 1960's muscle car, while this model 60 sounds more like a turbocharged 4-banger.

[Shellbelly]

Does the spool sit and turn true with the side plates?  Not talking about wobble, just maybe running at a barely perceptible angle between the plates....like the frame got "out of square" but didn't bind the reel.

Slightly cocked stands have perplexed me before.

[Paul Roberts]

Good thought. I don't think so. Pretty solid design (some hefty pillars). And I think I'd be hearing the spool ring on the plate? Spool seems to balance well and spin true.

[Sonnett]

When faced with an unstoppable noise in an older reel I have on rare occasions resorted to replacing each suspected part one at a time (either with a new part or one that is borrowed from an identical but quiet reel). On even rarer occasions this has resulted in solving the mystery. At that point, a reel has to be pretty dear to me not to be set aside for the next yard sale in the hopes that Paul Roberts will stop by and grab it up.

[Paul Roberts]

  I'm darn lucky I don't live just down the road from you. I have ended up with a few yard sale quality reels. But very few. I've already been through the old reels I've collected up and am going through again, upgrading minor (or perceived?) issues. I've been casting every day, but... the ponds are still frozen up.