How smooth is a Mitchell supposed to be?

[Barishi]

I got a NIB 441A to collect or trade later on lately and I'm not looking forward to cracking it open. One thing I noted was that, with the antireverse lever in the off position, it was super grindy sounding. Not buzzing kinda grindy, its grindy like how my old Penn 980 is grindy. Think the better way to put it is "not smooth". Anyways, is this normal with Mitchells, especially those with the same gear setup as a 300?

Might just be me, my point of comparison is a DAM Quick from the same era which is leagues smoother. Another thing, whats up with the A in the model name?

[jtwill98]

With the anti reverse set in the off position it should be quiet and smooth. If I were to guess without cracking it open, I would guess the anti dog spring somehow disengaged from the dog. 

I have opened one on the past where the spring was totally disengaged and the spring stuck to the side of the housing embedded in grease.

Unfortunately, you'll need to crack it open and inspect it.  There are several good online videos that show how to service and repair the reel, if you are curious.

The 441A is one of the newer 441 models 1978-1981 depending on whether its a Match A, Match ALC or a plain A. 

[Barishi]

With the anti reverse set in the off position it should be quiet and smooth. If I were to guess without cracking it open, I would guess the anti dog spring somehow disengaged from the dog. 

I have opened one on the past where the spring was totally disengaged and the spring stuck to the side of the housing embedded in grease.

Unfortunately, you'll need to crack it open and inspect it.  There are several good online videos that show how to service and repair the reel, if you are curious.

The 441A is one of the newer 441 models 1978-1981 depending on whether its a Match A, Match ALC or a plain A. 

Man, I dont have a good track record of opening reels and servicing them without giving myself anxiety attacks. Especiallg not a Mitchell. This one is also a 9.9/10 cosmetically and is basically new if its not for the grindiness. Any chance its old grease clogging the operation? I tried packing my 440N with grease once, a lá surfcasting style. Turned the thing into a howling monster. Don't feel like its the dog though, the anti reverse is flawless.

There will be that one day my desire for a cosmetically and functionally perfect collector's piece will overide my fear

[Barishi]

Just wanted to share a pic of this beauty.

[jtwill98]

If the anti-reverse is working properly, then it's possible the grease has thickened and is causing the grinding sound.  You might try setting the reel outside in the sun for a while, letting it heat up and then try reeling to see the sound lessens.   

[Gfish]

Cool lookin Mitchell. If you disassemble, would love to see pictures of the guts.

[Barishi]

The 441A is one of the newer 441 models 1978-1981 depending on whether its a Match A, Match ALC or a plain A. 

Whats the difference between the match versions and the basic one?

[jtwill98]

I have few 440 reels. Good reels but the autocast feature they tout is really not my thing. I just happened to run across a deal.   

I read up on 440a reels and the differences weren't enough to interest me and I promptly forgot the differences. 

I think the 440A (non Match) is pretty much the same as the Match reels except there is slight differences in the gears/gear ratios. The Match has the word Match engraved on it and the ALC (Lightning Cast) version has raised lettering (I believe).  There also may be difference in the handles (torpedo versus paddle). When I looked, it seem like is was more of marketing ploy to attract select groups of European and American buyers. 

The gear ratios were not significantly different. I believe the 400A non match was 4:1 and had a slightly lower gear ratio than the Match and ALC at 4.2:1. Don't quote me, I can't find proof of that, I just vaguely remember reading it.

According to the MRM site:

First made in 1983/84 by Mitchell for Browning during Browning's short involvement. Browning decided to "bring back the Mitchell 440A because it never gained the popularity it deserves." This reel was the Mitchell 440A Lightning Cast commonly called the "ALC". First versions were Match Grade quality and also available was the 441A Lightning Cast in very limited quantities. There was more information at the MRM site in 2016 before the site came under attack and the information was lost.
 
I believe the engraved reel came first in late 1977 or 1978. Again my memory may not be correct. 

This link seems to agree with me and has more information about the 440A Match:  https://www.fishingmagic.com/forums/threads/mitchell-440-special-anyone-know-about-them.388931/post-1644069

[Barishi]

I have few 440 reels. Good reels but the autocast feature they tout is really not my thing. I just happened to run across a deal.   

I read up on 440a reels and the differences weren't enough to interest me and I promptly forgot the differences. 

I think the 440A (non Match) is pretty much the same as the Match reels except there is slight differences in the gears/gear ratios. The Match has the word Match engraved on it and the ALC (Lightning Cast) version has raised lettering (I believe).  There also may be difference in the handles (torpedo versus paddle). When I looked, it seem like is was more of marketing ploy to attract select groups of European and American buyers. 

The gear ratios were not significantly different. I believe the 400A non match was 4:1 and had a slightly lower gear ratio than the Match and ALC at 4.2:1. Don't quote me, I can't find proof of that, I just vaguely remember reading it.

According to the MRM site:

First made in 1983/84 by Mitchell for Browning during Browning's short involvement. Browning decided to "bring back the Mitchell 440A because it never gained the popularity it deserves." This reel was the Mitchell 440A Lightning Cast commonly called the "ALC". First versions were Match Grade quality and also available was the 441A Lightning Cast in very limited quantities. There was more information at the MRM site in 2016 before the site came under attack and the information was lost.
 
I believe the engraved reel came first in late 1977 or 1978. Again my memory may not be correct. 

This link seems to agree with me and has more information about the 440A Match:  https://www.fishingmagic.com/forums/threads/mitchell-440-special-anyone-know-about-them.388931/post-1644069

My 441A appears to have a gear ratio of 4.9:1. How rare is the 441A and is it a desirable/valuable reel? Apologies for the superficial intent, this is a reel I 100% don't intend to fish and I'm not sure if I want to keep it yet. According to the serial number, mine is made in 1979.

[jtwill98]

You're correct about the gear ratio being 4.9:1.  In fact, looking through George Saul's book all versions of the 440A, 440A Match and 440ALC had the same 4.9:1 gear ratio.

With regard to rarity, there were only ~28,300+ 441A reels manufactured, so it is in the rare collectible category. To appraise your reel, one would need to compare the box, paper work, reel characteristics to discern the value. 

Speaking of value, that is between you and the collector. Just keep in mind the rarest of the Mitchell egg shaped reels is the MK.1 Mitchell half bail reels.  One of those recently sold (Apr 2023) on ebay for $1,552.06 as seen here: https://alantani.com/index.php/topic,36649.msg433575.html#msg433575
 
The prices (greater than $1500) that you're seeing online are not true collector values.  Sometimes sellers use others to list reels way beyond their true value and then list their own reel at pumped up but lesser value to attract buyers.

I am not a true collector and wouldn't attempt to appraise the value.

[Barishi]

You're correct about the gear ratio being 4.9:1.  In fact, looking through George Saul's book all versions of the 440A, 400A Match and 440ALC had the same 4.9:1 gear ratio.

With regard to rarity, there were only ~28,300+ 441A reels manufactured, so it is in the rare collectible category. To appraise your reel, one would need to compare the box, paper work, reel characteristics to discern the value. 

Speaking of value, that is between you and the collector. Just keep in mind the rarest of the Mitchell egg shaped reels is the MK.1 Mitchell half bail reels.  One of those recently sold (Apr 2023) on ebay for $1,552.06 as seen here: https://alantani.com/index.php/topic,36649.msg433575.html#msg433575
 
The prices (greater than $1500) that you're seeing online are not true collector values.  Sometimes sellers use others to list reels way beyond their true value and then list their own reel at pumped up but lesser value to attract buyers.

I am not a true collector and wouldn't attempt to appraise the value.

Thank you for the information. If or when I get to stripping down this reel I will post images of the inside and the pamphlet. Honestly, after watching videos of people reeling their newly-serviced 300s, I'm willing to bet that the grindy nature of Mitchells is just the norm. Where did you get the info that only 28k were produced? The Mitchell reel museum only places a ? on the number of 441As produced.

[jtwill98]

Appendix 2 of the book - "The Mitchell Century - A Reel Revolution by George Saul"

Other books listed here:
https://alantani.com/index.php?msg=440076