Anybody fishing a Bates bait caster reel

[RUSTY OLD COLT]

Local tackle shop got in some Bates bait caster reels, they are made from a solid block of aluminum.and have 20 pound drag. They look well made and would be a great bay reel here on Long Island, N.Y. Any body have any input on them?

[Shootr2003]

They sound like..uh..solid reels man! I'm not familiar with them ,hopefully someone will respond send pics if you can.

[jurelometer]

I am also on the lookout for a better saltwater low profile, so I did a quick check.

Look up Seaborn Outfitters. The company seems to have two names.  No address, but if you lookup the phone number, it is linked to a PO box in Celina Texas.

I get nervous when a new small company sells many products (like multiple lines of rods and reels), doesn't say anything about where the products are manufactured, doesn't appear to have an actual brick and mortar headquarter or manufacturing facility.

If the reels are not well described, if there are no schematics, if there is no mention of replacement parts...

Also do they demonstrate competence in the subject matter in their promotional material?

It is easy to get in the rod and reel business simply by placing an order of sufficient quantity with a Chinese manufacturer.  If you want to use different parts or your own design, the cost goes up.  It is easy and cheap to get into the junk side of the business, but quality product is also  possible with enough investment, expertise, and quality control.

This company sells a variety of rods, baitcasting reels, fly reels, and a very inexpensive spinning reel.

The video was not impressive: "specialized copper" (maybe he means bronze?), and describes anodizing as "an electrically charged fusion of color"   

I have been fishing a well regarded cast aluminum low profile levelwind (Okuma Komodo) that I have put through the wringer at very high drag settings, and have busted or worn out several parts, but the frame and sideplates are fine.  A low profile reel does not put much load on the frame. I personslly would not pay a premium for a barstock frame.  The rest of the parts are more important, and I couldn't find out anything about the actual reel internals in the Bates. If you look through the threads here, you will see that all brands of saltwater low profile levelwinds are fairly high maintenance if fished hard, so parts availability should also factor heavily into the equation.

So maybe these folk are making a good product, but there are more than a few warning signs.  I would at least call them before plunking down close to $300 for a baitcaster.

Just my opinion...

-J

[boon]

The machining on display looks incredible. The photo on their site of the frame emerging from a lump of barstock is pretty amazing:


At the same time, they do have a slight hint of "is this a shelf reel?" to them. Especially the spinner, which looks incredibly generic with a screen-printed logo. I'll have a dig around certain websites and see if I can find a suspiciously similar clone.

EDIT: The spinner is almost certainly a shelf reel. Therefore they are presumably working with one or more chinese factories. This is not, in any way, to say it's not a good product; if they provide strict specifications and hold the manufacturer to them then China can produce perfectly good reels.
At this stage I can't find an identical reel to the baitcaster on the usual sites where you tend to find them, though.

[jtwill98]

If you compare the two reels pictures, side-by-side the Seaborn and Bates reels (minus print logos) they look the same. Specs are slightly different.

https://seabornoutfitters.com/products/salty-150-baitcaster-reel?variant=42063886680229

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/bates-fishing-the-goat-baitcast-reel?hvarAID=shopping_googleproductextensions&ds_e=GOOGLE&ds_c=BPS%7CShopping%7CPMax%7CFishing%7CGeneral%7CNAud%7CNVol%7CNMT&gclid=CjwKCAjwxOymBhAFEiwAnodBLPsRvMAYGyUv-iZ1UZqe5lTyeT1JUp4tWRQUy4rzfhVknd4K-EAbEhoC3DoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Opps!, I didn't realize they were the same outfit. 

[G8trwood]

26" line retrieval with 7:1 gears .......

[johndtuttle]

I am also on the lookout for a better saltwater low profile, so I did a quick check.

Look up Seaborn Outfitters. The company seems to have two names.  No address, but if you lookup the phone number, it is linked to a PO box in Celina Texas.

I get nervous when a new small company sells many products (like multiple lines of rods and reels), doesn't say anything about where the products are manufactured, doesn't appear to have an actual brick and mortar headquarter or manufacturing facility.

If the reels are not well described, if there are no schematics, if there is no mention of replacement parts...

Also do they demonstrate competence in the subject matter in their promotional material?

It is easy to get in the rod and reel business simply by placing an order of sufficient quantity with a Chinese manufacturer.  If you want to use different parts or your own design, the cost goes up.  It is easy and cheap to get into the junk side of the business, but quality product is also  possible with enough investment, expertise, and quality control.

This company sells a variety of rods, baitcasting reels, fly reels, and a very inexpensive spinning reel.

The video was not impressive: "specialized copper" (maybe he means bronze?), and describes anodizing as "an electrically charged fusion of color"   

I have been fishing a well regarded cast aluminum low profile levelwind (Okuma Komodo) that I have put through the wringer at very high drag settings, and have busted or worn out several parts, but the frame and sideplates are fine.  A low profile reel does not put much load on the frame. I personslly would not pay a premium for a barstock frame.  The rest of the parts are more important, and I couldn't find out anything about the actual reel internals in the Bates. If you look through the threads here, you will see that all brands of saltwater low profile levelwinds are fairly high maintenance if fished hard, so parts availability should also factor heavily into the equation.

So maybe these folk are making a good product, but there are more than a few warning signs.  I would at least call them before plunking down close to $300 for a baitcaster.

Just my opinion...

-J

Daiwa Lexa T-wing version is the new gold standard. 

[johndtuttle]

Local tackle shop got in some Bates bait caster reels, they are made from a solid block of aluminum.and have 20 pound drag. They look well made and would be a great bay reel here on Long Island, N.Y. Any body have any input on them?

If you think anyone on Earth is producing a better product than Abu, Daiwa, Okuma or Shimano I got news for you: There is no free lunch. You should need STRONG motivation to go outside the giants to buy a reel. This includes knowledgeable analysis of the quality of the components and an established repair center history.

What the top makers provide in terms of value, quality and product/parts support over time cannot be matched by anyone this community has never heard of....don't take a flier on obscure Chinese junk. It never pays off.

[jurelometer]

I am also on the lookout for a better saltwater low profile, so I did a quick check.

Look up Seaborn Outfitters. The company seems to have two names.  No address, but if you lookup the phone number, it is linked to a PO box in Celina Texas.

I get nervous when a new small company sells many products (like multiple lines of rods and reels), doesn't say anything about where the products are manufactured, doesn't appear to have an actual brick and mortar headquarter or manufacturing facility.

If the reels are not well described, if there are no schematics, if there is no mention of replacement parts...

Also do they demonstrate competence in the subject matter in their promotional material?

It is easy to get in the rod and reel business simply by placing an order of sufficient quantity with a Chinese manufacturer.  If you want to use different parts or your own design, the cost goes up.  It is easy and cheap to get into the junk side of the business, but quality product is also  possible with enough investment, expertise, and quality control.

This company sells a variety of rods, baitcasting reels, fly reels, and a very inexpensive spinning reel.

The video was not impressive: "specialized copper" (maybe he means bronze?), and describes anodizing as "an electrically charged fusion of color"   

I have been fishing a well regarded cast aluminum low profile levelwind (Okuma Komodo) that I have put through the wringer at very high drag settings, and have busted or worn out several parts, but the frame and sideplates are fine.  A low profile reel does not put much load on the frame. I personslly would not pay a premium for a barstock frame.  The rest of the parts are more important, and I couldn't find out anything about the actual reel internals in the Bates. If you look through the threads here, you will see that all brands of saltwater low profile levelwinds are fairly high maintenance if fished hard, so parts availability should also factor heavily into the equation.

So maybe these folk are making a good product, but there are more than a few warning signs.  I would at least call them before plunking down close to $300 for a baitcaster.

Just my opinion...

-J

Daiwa Lexa T-wing version is the new gold standard. 

Recently bought a (non-T-wing) Lexa 400.  Haven't fished it yet. IMHO, the T-wing looks a bit "much" to me.  It would have to cast a lot better to be worth the extra complexity.  The only person that I have talked to that has fished both styles of Lexa has said not much casting difference. I actually avoided the T-wing when looking for a Lexa. I would be curious to hear from folk that have fished both.

I don't like the non-synchronized levelwinds like the Lexa (and the Shimao Tranx). But I'm going to give it a try.

Something like the Okuma Komodo (non-disengaging levelwind), but  with a beefier eccentric mechanism would be my ideal.  I will sacrifice a few feet of casting distance for a levelwind that doesn't wear out too fast under load.

-J

[johndtuttle]

I am also on the lookout for a better saltwater low profile, so I did a quick check.

Look up Seaborn Outfitters. The company seems to have two names.  No address, but if you lookup the phone number, it is linked to a PO box in Celina Texas.

I get nervous when a new small company sells many products (like multiple lines of rods and reels), doesn't say anything about where the products are manufactured, doesn't appear to have an actual brick and mortar headquarter or manufacturing facility.

If the reels are not well described, if there are no schematics, if there is no mention of replacement parts...

Also do they demonstrate competence in the subject matter in their promotional material?

It is easy to get in the rod and reel business simply by placing an order of sufficient quantity with a Chinese manufacturer.  If you want to use different parts or your own design, the cost goes up.  It is easy and cheap to get into the junk side of the business, but quality product is also  possible with enough investment, expertise, and quality control.

This company sells a variety of rods, baitcasting reels, fly reels, and a very inexpensive spinning reel.

The video was not impressive: "specialized copper" (maybe he means bronze?), and describes anodizing as "an electrically charged fusion of color"   

I have been fishing a well regarded cast aluminum low profile levelwind (Okuma Komodo) that I have put through the wringer at very high drag settings, and have busted or worn out several parts, but the frame and sideplates are fine.  A low profile reel does not put much load on the frame. I personslly would not pay a premium for a barstock frame.  The rest of the parts are more important, and I couldn't find out anything about the actual reel internals in the Bates. If you look through the threads here, you will see that all brands of saltwater low profile levelwinds are fairly high maintenance if fished hard, so parts availability should also factor heavily into the equation.

So maybe these folk are making a good product, but there are more than a few warning signs.  I would at least call them before plunking down close to $300 for a baitcaster.

Just my opinion...

-J

Daiwa Lexa T-wing version is the new gold standard. 

Recently bought a (non-T-wing) Lexa 400.  Haven't fished it yet. IMHO, the T-wing looks a bit "much" to me.  It would have to cast a lot better to be worth the extra complexity.  The only person that I have talked to that has fished both styles of Lexa has said not much casting difference. I actually avoided the T-wing when looking for a Lexa. I would be curious to hear from folk that have fished both.

I don't like the non-synchronized levelwinds like the Lexa (and the Shimao Tranx). But I'm going to give it a try.

Something like the Okuma Komodo (non-disengaging levelwind), but  with a beefier eccentric mechanism would be my ideal.  I will sacrifice a few feet of casting distance for a levelwind that doesn't wear out too fast under load.

-J

Abu Revo Toro Beast has the highest quality components there, but you may have to live with early replacement regardless.

These reels punch above their weight in general but not every component has been upgraded for saltwater fishing. Very impressed with the strength of the twing watching Matty fish them (youtube pelagic pursuit).

[JasonGotaProblem]

Local tackle shop got in some Bates bait caster reels, they are made from a solid block of aluminum.and have 20 pound drag. They look well made and would be a great bay reel here on Long Island, N.Y. Any body have any input on them?

If you think anyone on Earth is producing a better product than Abu, Daiwa, Okuma or Shimano I got news for you: There is no free lunch. You should need STRONG motivation to go outside the giants to buy a reel. This includes knowledgeable analysis of the quality of the components and an established repair center history.

What the top makers provide in terms of value, quality and product/parts support over time cannot be matched by anyone this community has never heard of....don't take a flier on obscure Chinese junk. It never pays off.

Theres a lot of logic to your stance. But dismissing any newcomers as a matter of course stifles the industry. I'm open to anything new if it checks all my boxes. My only strong argument for sticking to the established brands is continued parts availability. But that isn't even a guarantee anymore with the ones listed above.

[Keta]

Penn, Okuma, Diawa and Shamano are all known manufactures that mahe quality reels with similar reels in the same price range.  I have a Okuma Komodo, have worked the Diawa and Shimano low profile reels.  As of now I think my preference  would be #1 Penn, #2 Okuma, #3 Diawa....I no longer recomend Shimano reels due to their marketing and parts philosophy.  Spending hundreds of dolars on a reel that parts become obsolete in 5 or so years is foolish no matter how nice they are. I do not need another $400 paperweight.

[johndtuttle]

Local tackle shop got in some Bates bait caster reels, they are made from a solid block of aluminum.and have 20 pound drag. They look well made and would be a great bay reel here on Long Island, N.Y. Any body have any input on them?

If you think anyone on Earth is producing a better product than Abu, Daiwa, Okuma or Shimano I got news for you: There is no free lunch. You should need STRONG motivation to go outside the giants to buy a reel. This includes knowledgeable analysis of the quality of the components and an established repair center history.

What the top makers provide in terms of value, quality and product/parts support over time cannot be matched by anyone this community has never heard of....don't take a flier on obscure Chinese junk. It never pays off.

Theres a lot of logic to your stance. But dismissing any newcomers as a matter of course stifles the industry. I'm open to anything new if it checks all my boxes. My only strong argument for sticking to the established brands is continued parts availability. But that isn't even a guarantee anymore with the ones listed above.

No worries, my friend. You are welcome to experiment but one thing I have learned is that this is a numbers game. The people with the huge manufacturing numbers are able to provide the most value and reliability. Even Shimano with 5 years of parts are better than someone that arrived yesterday and may not be here tomorrow.

BUT, more power to you if you would like to give them a try and break down the reel for us! 

[JasonGotaProblem]

Don't hold your breath. I speak about the concept in general.

The only modern reel I actually use anymore is my SP4000XGSW, but I'm not anti-modern. In fact as I attempted to say above, quite the opposite. There's just really nothing on the market in my budget range that grabs my interest. This "bates" reel is out of my price range.

But i too would love to live vicariously through the impartial review of this reel if anyone wants to rise to the challenge.

[steelfish]

...I personslly would not pay a premium for a barstock frame.  The rest of the parts are more important,

x2

Avet reels since their beginning were made from a solid aluminium bars and we all know their problems on the pinion gear, just because its made outta solid aluminium stock bar people think they can use double their advertised drag range, so the guys that would jump on these new brands of lowprofile reels will fish them like if they were better than their counterparts from shimano, penn, okuma, etc. hey but one of the reels its the GOAT, if the same company call its own product the GOAT it should be true.