Started by steelfish, December 20, 2023, 08:00:07 PM
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Quote from: jurelometer on December 23, 2023, 12:49:17 AMEugene!I was hoping you would jump in. I would like to add a couple comments and questions if you don't mind.It took a bit a digging, but I think that you are referring to this document:https://www.afdo.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Cured_salted_and_smoked_fish_establishments_good_manufacturing_practices_acc_updated_2019.pdfYou got the right document.....Interesting reading, but I assume for the general public, determining the water phase salt percentage is pretty close to impossible, Even though Alex is more fortunate enough than most of us to have an actual trained chemist in the house, there is still the equipment issue.1. Your "Food Safety for all" thread (https://alantani.com/index.php/topic,19112.0.html ) also mentioned the 3.5% water phase salt target, but I didn't see any information on how someone at home is supposed to accomplish this. Is this possible? YES- This is possible by using a water activity meter. If shooting for 3.5% WPS you would need an equivalent water activity of 0.979. If you are using sugar and salt mixture, you can go down below 0.97 without it being too salty but you will totally control non-proteolytic Cbot.2. How important is hitting a high (and specific) salt level if the fish is going from 38F into a hot smoker and hitting the internal target temp (145F?) for enough time (30 minutes?), presuming that the fish is consumed immediately or rapidly chilled below 38F and consumed within three days or so? HOT smoking to 145F and holding for 30 minutes will achieve a partial destruction of non-proteolytic Cbot spores and combined with water phase salt/water activity being controlled, you will prevent the spores from repairing themselves and creating toxin under temperature abuse conditions. If you are going to ALL of the fish in one siting right out of the smoker, this is not crucial but if you are not, don't take the risk.3. I remember reading something about the drying on the surface during smoking can create a more anerobic environment underneath which will favor the growth of some specific nasty bacteria, so smoking may not have the same safety profile as let's say, roasting, even if the same target temps/times are achieved. Is this correct? THE Pellicle creates an anaerobic environment which can contribute to Cbot toxin formation even outside of vacuum packaging. This is why it is important to get smoke under the pellicle before drying to allow for the phenolic compounds from the smoke to drop the pH under the pellicle which will facilitate Cbot toxin formation prevention, help destroy pathogens during smoking and help achieve a longer shelf life, safely. Go right from brine/dry cure into the smoker with smoke going and apply smoke for at least the first half of the smoking cycle4. Is there a document that you would recommend for us civilians interested in hot smoking sport caught fish for consumption within the next day or three? Do you have any issues with the OSU document that I linked to? It has some brining instructions that could actually be followed by a home processor. The OSU document is good for home use. Getting a high quality water activity meter will make your life alot easier. If you are going to be storing the product in the fridge for periods of time and or vacuum sealing, I would suggest going with a sugar/salt brine (either dry cure or wet brine) and getting your water activity to 0.979 or lower BEFORE going in the smoker. This way you know you don't have to control humidity in the smoker which is not easy in home smokers. The sugar will be your friend to take the bite off the salt and help you achieve a safer product. The water activity will only go lower in the smoker.When using yellowfin tuna, the natural unbrined water activity can vary from 0.92- 0.98 and this is why water activity testing is a good measure for home use. (You might not need as much salt as you would need for other fish for safety) Test the water activity of your fish before brine, after brine/dry cure and when you are done.-J
Quote from: jigmaster501 on December 25, 2023, 01:40:03 PM.........smoking is a process that has multiple hazards that are deadly if not controlled and needs multiple steps all working in unison to control all the hazards consistently.Eugene
Quote from: steelfish on December 26, 2023, 10:05:40 PMgeezzzuuss!! man I think I'd rather grill the tuna and add "smockey flavored BBQ sauce"
Quote from: jigmaster501 on December 28, 2023, 01:04:22 AM... Old style smoke fish was much drier and was a true preservation technique.**** Modern smoked fish is much wetter resulting in the need of many more controls of many more hazards.
Quote from: jurelometer on December 21, 2023, 12:20:14 AM........Since you are dealing with longer times and lower temperatures for smoking, there is more potential to end up with a bad batch of food compared to the regular cooking methods.Here is one reference:https://seafood.oregonstate.edu/sites/agscid7/files/snic/smoking-fish-at-home-safely.pdfHappy smoking!-J
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