Surface iron rehab

[thorhammer]

I've never seen one for sale in NC in a shop.

[JasonGotaProblem]

Casting something that size would scare away a snook. But it's heavy enough you might be able to cast it far enough past them to not spook them.

[pjstevko]

Casting something that size would scare away a snook. But it's heavy enough you might be able to cast it far enough past them to not spook them.

It's not a full-sized iron, its maybe 4 " long.

[jurelometer]

Yoyo irons are an entirely different discussion.   But for surface irons:

West Coast surface irons are at their best distance casting and retrieving on the surface of deeper water where the bottom does not come into play, so usually something you would do from a boat.  Dragging a surface iron over bottom doesn't work too well, dulls the hooks, and is kinda snaggy. There is a specific narrow speed range for each jig, and you usually don't want to dress it with bait. Surface irons are ideal for certain picky species like yellowtail that respond to the wide erratic kick, but work for other species too.

Also, it used to be that the crowd that first adopted surface irons (SoCal long rangers) tended not to like spinning reels.  For distance casting and working a surface lure on a boat with a conventional reel, a surface iron beats a surface plug or popper hands down.  So the surface iron was pretty much the best option for them until the modern saltwater spinners and low-profile levelwinds arrived.

I see posts on the East Coast boards about using west coast surface irons, but agree that they are not as popular as plugs and poppers for surface/subsurface work.  Bluefish are mentioned frequently with surface irons, which makes sense considering all those teeth.   There are East Coast specific irons ("tins"), but these tend to be slower speed, drag over the sand type stuff- with some exceptions, such as the very versatile Hopkins jigs.  For tuna, I suspect that there are times when the larger surface irons could fill a niche for them.

-J

[JasonGotaProblem]

You see a lot more spoon type lures bring thrown inshore in Florida. I have friends who swear by them. Sort of the same concept it seems but lighter

[jurelometer]

Casting something that size would scare away a snook. But it's heavy enough you might be able to cast it far enough past them to not spook them.

I agree.  Even a small iron is pretty splashy.

I would personally rank surface irons pretty low on the list of lures to try for snook.  Too splashy on the landing, not so good on the pause, a bit on the fast side for retrieve. There are other metal lures  ("spoons") that would fit the bill better IMHO.

But the snook get the final vote.

Also agree with Jason on the eyes: If you watch a fish take a surface iron, you will notice that it is not sniffing around, it is running it down.  With a tiny forward focal window due to the eyes being on the sides of the fish's head, it will not get an in-focus look at the front of the lure until it is already in the act of eating it. And in-focus is a relative term here. Species such as yellowtail have very poor visual acuity.

On the odd chance that you get bit on a dead stop while you are taking a break, eyes on a surface iron  might encourage a bite, or might work against you, as it directs the bite toward the front of the lure, away from the hook.

But eyes on lures have proven to be extremely effective in attracting fishermen. I can't resist myself.  I put them on my surface and yoyo iron designs.  But just on one side.  It seems kinda silly TBH, but I can't help myself.



-J

[Gfish]

PJ's color pattern reminded me of all the red-head—-white body plugs I have seen and used. Got a nice old cedar Bass Oreno like that with many tooth holes that the Barracuda love, and about a 7" Rapala deep diver from Donnyboat. How about the red/white Daredevils? Kilt me many a trout n' bass with 'em. What is it about that color combo?

[thorhammer]

Casting something that size would scare away a snook. But it's heavy enough you might be able to cast it far enough past them to not spook them.

I agree.  Even a small iron is pretty splashy.

I would personally rank surface irons pretty low on the list of lures to try for snook.  Too splashy on the landing, not so good on the pause, a bit on the fast side for retrieve. There are other metal lures  ("spoons") that would fit the bill better IMHO.

But the snook get the final vote.

Also agree with Jason on the eyes: If you watch a fish take a surface iron, you will notice that it is not sniffing around, it is running it down.  With a tiny forward focal window due to the eyes being on the sides of the fish's head, it will not get an in-focus look at the front of the lure until it is already in the act of eating it. And in-focus is a relative term here. Species such as yellowtail have very poor visual acuity.

On the odd chance that you get bit on a dead stop while you are taking a break, eyes on a surface iron  might encourage a bite, or might work against you, as it directs the bite toward the front of the lure, away from the hook.

But eyes on lures have proven to be extremely effective in attracting fishermen. I can't resist myself.  I put them on my surface and yoyo iron designs.  But just on one side.  It seems kinda silly TBH, but I can't help myself.



-J

Eyes on one side are deadly when they are keying on baby flounder       



Agree, at least in my fishery, eyes on these fishing a dawn or dusk surface bite mean zilch- and eyes on a popper gotta be just for fisherman since they get hit from below. WHere I think the eyes can enhance is on the fall when jigging. I like these because they fall slower and flutter more than brass or lead spoons when I want a larger presentation. The five inchers in blue and white or black white (with eyes look a whole lot like a wounded blueback herring falling in the water column, by far the preferred the meal on these fish here. A five inch stingsilver or simila is 5-6 ozs and blows right by the suspended fish. I'm usually not jigging in more than 50-60 feet.

PJ's red and white is a classic pattern about anywhere there's a striper or blue- can't attest to snook having never fished them.

[pjstevko]

Snook are VERY aggressive and don't have any hesitation about hitting a lure that splashes or makes noise. 

[jurelometer]

PJ's color pattern reminded me of all the red-head—-white body plugs I have seen and used. Got a nice old cedar Bass Oreno like that with many tooth holes that the Barracuda love, and about a 7" Rapala deep diver from Donnyboat. How about the red/white Daredevils? Kilt me many a trout n' bass with 'em. What is it about that color combo?

Contrast.

Red receptive cone cells are not uncommon in the eyes of fish species found in clear, shallow water.  Largemouth bass can see reds, and I think rainbow trout too. Behaviorally, it often serves as a mating cue, probably because red light waves can't travel far (down or across) in water, making red good for making a unique signal up close, but blending in otherwise.

Once you get into species that live in deeper and/or less clear water, red vision becomes much rarer. The majority of the marine species that we fish for cannot see red.

When a red light wave reaches the eye of a fish that cannot see red, nothing happens- which we would decribe as black.  So in these species, the red in your lure could contribute to making a more visible high-contrast profile, but a red and white jig would be identical to a black and white jig to these fish.

Black and white is often a very effective combination IMHO.  But it is not popular with fishermen, so red serves a valuable function in causing unsuspecting fishermen to fish a high contrast lure

Eyes on one side are deadly when they are keying on baby flounder       

Ahh, the one-eyed baby flounder is a sitting duck!😂

Didn't think of that...

Snook are VERY aggressive and don't have any hesitation about hitting a lure that splashes or makes noise. 

I am thinking about when the cast lands. There is splashing and there is splashing.

Try this thought experiment:

Scenario 1:  You see a laid up snook and throw a dozen live baits in the water near the fish.

Scenario 2.  Same snook, but this time you throw a dozen decent sized rocks instead.

The way that I see it, throwing a plug  is closer to throwing a live bait, throwing a surface iron is more like throwing a rock.

But you never know for sure.  Let us know how you do.

-J

[JasonGotaProblem]

Snook are VERY aggressive and don't have any hesitation about hitting a lure that splashes or makes noise. 

I'm sorry but this is just plain wrong.

Snook are my favorite fish and I study their behavior extensively.

Snook scare easy and will high tail it if they see another snook running. One poorly considered splash can clear a whole mangrove line for the next hour. Sometimes they run if you throw a small freeline shrimp too close.

Many large specimens (the experienced ones) will bolt if the water is clear and they see you walk toward the water. Thats why I tend to throw my first cast from 20' away from the water. Or if I'm throwing bucktails I throw well past where I'd expect to see a hit.

There are times where a very hungry snook will take more risks than normal, but that's the exception not the rule.

You might be thinking redfish. Very different personality.

[pjstevko]

Snook are VERY aggressive and don't have any hesitation about hitting a lure that splashes or makes noise. 

I'm sorry but this is just plain wrong.

Snook are my favorite fish and I study their behavior extensively.

Snook scare easy and will high tail it if they see another snook running. One poorly considered splash can clear a whole mangrove line for the next hour. Sometimes they run if you throw a small freeline shrimp too close.

Many large specimens (the experienced ones) will bolt if the water is clear and they see you walk toward the water. Thats why I tend to throw my first cast from 20' away from the water. Or if I'm throwing bucktails I throw well past where I'd expect to see a hit.

There are times where a very hungry snook will take more risks than normal, but that's the exception not the rule.

You might be thinking redfish. Very different personality.

Agree to disagree......

[JasonGotaProblem]

Happy to drop it and move on. But rereading my last post, it sounded kind of snippy. And that was not intentional.

And i want to make one clarification for posterity. Snook love a loud rattly splashy topwater lure. What i was referring to is the loud splash down of a heavy weight (be it lure or sinker) that tends to send them running.

Peace and happiness my friend.

[pjstevko]

Happy to drop it and move on. But rereading my last post, it sounded kind of snippy. And that was not intentional.

And i want to make one clarification for posterity. Snook love a loud rattly splashy topwater lure. What i was referring to is the loud splash down of a heavy weight (be it lure or sinker) that tends to send them running.

Peace and happiness my friend.

No worries, we're good