Old Penn's Still Rock

[slugmeister]

It's been a while since I've posted here, I have not bought any reels in a while, all of mine just keep going. Growing up I was aware of old Penn reels, but it wasn't until the last 5 years or so I really discovered what was out there. I have to say I have fallen in love with old Penn spinning reels.

I think it actually started with a conventional reel, a Penn Levelwind 209 I got just about new that was fantastic. I never did anything to the reel, I don't even know if I put in carbon fiber drag washers. I later discovered the spinfishers, where I bought my first one, a great condition 722. It wasn't much later I bought a 722z. Neither reel has had a problem, although I wasn't too happy seeing that plastic crosswind block inside. I had access to a mill at the time, so I made a couple of them out of aluminum and they have been flawless. I would have to say the only thing I wasn't impressed with as the automatic only bail. All my life I closed bails manually, and I was not happy with having to reel to close them. After reading about going bail-less, that's exactly what I did. I cut the wire from the bail, and shaped the cone a little and they work fine this way. It works so well, I honestly could care less if it's a manual bale, or bail-less at this point. I still hate auto bails.

Later I found a really good deal on a 550SS, and I love this reel. I'm not sure why the SS series doesn't get as much love as the spinfishers (or are the SS series considered spinfishers?), but I am fully impressed. You don't see designs and quality like this in reels anymore, unless maybe you are one of those guys paying $400+ for a reel. I'm finding a lot of these older Penn's under $100 online in decent condition. I think the quality and longevity of these beats out a Shimano Sedona from what I've seen, nothing against Shimano.

I grew up after instant anti reverse clutches were standard on reels. Despite that, I have never found any problem with gear and dog anti-reverse reels like was on all reels pre 1990ish. So they rotate backwards 10 degrees when you hook a fish, so what? It's not something I ever think about or notice ever.

The line lay on the older Penn's is really the only thing I don't like about them. It seems consistent across the sizes, for whatever reason Penn chose to use a gear that raises and lowers the spool at a more rapid rate than reels do today. I've seen it mentioned that it was because they were supposedly designed for monofilament fishing line. I don't really see why the more rapid movement would aid mono at all, and that's besides the fact these reels were designed at a time when dacron braid was common enough it should have been considered. Despite that, I have had ZERO problems with my reels using modern spectra or dyneema braids. I don't remember which brand I have, possibly spiderwire 10# on my 722 and 722z. I have regular old 30# Power Pro on my 550SS. Maybe I'm giving up a little casting distance, but I haven't noticed anything dramatic. My 550SS on a St. Croix 7' rod has become my go-to pike rod for casting. I don't fish my 722z as much as I should, but it's been fine. My 722 is mostly setup for light duty stuff, jigging and such. It does cast fine though.


I plan to continue to buy spinfishers and SS series reels, I love them. Somewhat related, I've also always liked Abu Garcia Ambassadeurs for baitcasters. I have two of them, one is an older 5500C, and the other is a newer 5500C3 left hand. I don't know what it is, maybe my giant meat paw hands, but the round baitcasters are so much easier for me to hold on to than any low profile one I've tried. I never really thought about it much, Penn always seemed a spinning reel, or big conventional reel brand to me. It wasn't until now that I'm wondering has Penn pre 2000ish ever made a baitcaster to compete with an Ambassadeur or Calcutta or anything like that? The closest I can find is the pro mag series, and also the 525 mag, which seems like it should be a part of the pro mag series, but seems to be considered different. I see some people have added some magnetic brakes to things like the levelwinds or jigmasters, but that's a little different, more of a casting aid, than a real brake. I can't imagine anyone casting crankbaits all day with a penn #9 levelwind. You could do it, but it would be a little annoying.

Sorry for the long, rambling post. I'm sure you can tell it's that time of year to clean and lube reels again.

P.S. I did have a couple more questions. First is how does the size compare between a Penn 550SS and a Penn 706 or 710? I realize the line capacity listings, but I would like to know how they actual reel size compares. Is it closer to one or the other, or is the 550SS fit squarely between the two in size?

[JasonGotaProblem]

Welcome back.
The penn 930 is about the closest copy of an ambassadeur that I've seen from any reel company. I still think the amby is a better reel. But the 930 isnt far off. And it's a very handsome reel.

Fred was gonna look for a 910 spool for me but I think we both got distracted.

[slugmeister]

Sweet, I figured there must have been something like that. It's hard to tell with how many things Penn made. Is there any reason you chose the 930 size? It appears Penn made their Levelmatic series from 910 to 940. Assuming the listed line capacities are correct, it seems an Ambassadeur 5500 fits between a 920 and 930, and the 4500 is smaller than the 910. The 6500 appears bigger than the 940. I don't know anything about the non-Swedish Ambassedeurs, and I only own 5500's, and that's because they were the best deal. I think a 4500 would have plenty of capacity for me.

What do you consider to be the shortcomings of the Levelmatic?

[oldmanjoe]

[quote author=slugmeister link=msg=450865 date=171106285


The line lay on the older Penn's is really the only thing I don't like about them. It seems consistent across the sizes, for whatever reason Penn chose to use a gear that raises and lowers the spool at a more rapid rate than reels do today. I've seen it mentioned that it was because they were supposedly designed for monofilament fishing line. I don't really see why the more rapid movement would aid mono at all, and that's besides the fact these reels were designed at a time when dacron braid was common enough it should have been considered. Despite that, I have had ZERO problems with my reels using modern spectra or dyneema braids. I don't remember which brand I have, possibly spiderwire 10# on my 722 and 722z. I have regular old 30# Power Pro on my 550SS. Maybe I'm giving up a little casting distance, but I haven't noticed anything dramatic. My 550SS on a St. Croix 7' rod has become my go-to pike rod for casting. I don't fish my 722z as much as I should, but it's been fine. My 722 is mostly setup for light duty stuff, jigging and such. It does cast fine though.

[/quote]
My thoughts on the quick up and down " cross wraps " are better for braided line , less dig in on heaver drag settings .       The hour glass on the spool can be fixed with S shaped  crosswind block .
 

[JasonGotaProblem]

Shortcoming isn't the word I'd use. It was trying to copy an idea and cut into the ambassadeur market share and make the choice easier for folks who had penn brand loyalty but wanted that type of reel.

But at the end of the day abu had put in the R&D to make a great reel and done lots of little adjustments along the way to make a better reel. Penn, made something similar.

Semi related example: Like how pacbay makes guides that look a lot like fuji KL guides. Copy all the main points. But the fuji guides will always perform better because they put in the time to develop a great guide, and that's just what it happened to look like. Pacbay saw that fuji had a great selling guide and made something that looked similar. But they didn't put in the development time and it shows in performance.

I'm not anti penn. I have a lot of penn reels, more than any other brand, and love most of them. And to be clear I can't point to a noteworthy flaw in the 930.

But if you put an abu 5500 and a 930 on the table for me to fish with I know which one I'm grabbing. It's just a bit better of a reel. And that's just my opinion. I certainly don't feel like it's authoritative.

[slugmeister]

That makes sense, It appears the Ambassadeurs are actually cheaper than the Levelmatics. Plus the Ambassadeurs come in left hand, which I prefer. The only thing I see about the Levelmatics is they all came with a bait clicker. I would LOVE to have a bait clicker Ambassadeur, I never understood why they don't have it. I guess it's mainly a casting reel, but still, it seems a really easy addition that really adds versatility. Apparently some of the really old ones had it, but I've never seen a 4500, 5500, or 6500 with one. That was one the reasons I got my Penn 209.

Edit: Well I'll be, it seems the majority of 6500's have a bait clicker.

[slugmeister]

My thoughts on the quick up and down " cross wraps " are better for braided line , less dig in on heaver drag settings .       The hour glass on the spool can be fixed with S shaped  crosswind block .
 
[/quote]

The steeper cross wraps you might have a point, I'm not sure. I don't fish really big fish, and line digging in is not a problem I ever have. Maybe it depends on the line, but it doesn't seem to happen with Power Pro or Spiderwire. I'm not brand biased, I like pretty much any super braid. Mono is another story.

I'm not sure what you mean by hourglass on the spool. I've heard some Penn's need the spool shimmed up or down to get them lined up correctly. Mine haven't had that problem. What do you mean by S shaped crosswind block? My 722 and 722z the block is just that, a block. The 550SS it's an odd shaped part, completely different.

[oldmanjoe]

Hour glass is when the top and bottom of the spool are fat and the middle is thin.


S shape crosswind helps level out the line lay.

[Rancanfish]

Jason, aren't the 910 and 920 spools interchangeable?

[JasonGotaProblem]

Jason, aren't the 910 and 920 spools interchangeable?

Maybe. I have a bag of bags of parts and have everything I need to assemble a NFP 910 except a spool. I'm missing one of the levelwind parts needed to make a 930 I know that much. But it hasn't been too high on the to do list or I'd be trying harder to chase it down. It wasn't my intention to take over the thread

[slugmeister]

Hour glass is when the top and bottom of the spool are fat and the middle is thin.


S shape crosswind helps level out the line lay.

I looked at mine today, and it kind of has that, but not really. Mine lays relatively flat. It appears that one in the picture is biasing towards the base, which would tell me the drag washer or shim under the spool needs to be thinner. Correct me if I'm wrong about this.

Can you buy the curved S shape crosswinds like that for any of these older Penn's?

[slugmeister]

I did some research today on the Levelmatics, and I could be wrong, but it appears there are only two sizes. It appears the 910 and 920 are a smaller size, and the 930 and 940 are a slightly larger size. At least according to line capacity, the difference in size does not appear to be huge. The only difference I can find stated online is the 930 originally came with a single knob handle, and the 940 came with a double knob handle. Oddly it appears the opposite for the smaller size, the 910 came with a double handle, and the 920 came with a single handle. I see examples where they have been swapped, so I assume the handles can be interchanged. Supposedly the 930 and 940 are identical reels. I can only assume the 910 and 920 would be as well. I used to be more into baitcasters, but as time goes on I just can't really find much reason to use them over a spinning reel except for quick accurate casts such as shore/cover fishing bass, which is not something I do much.

Here's another completely unrelated question. I see a lot of people buy the bail-less conversion kits for the 704's, which makes sense. 704's are a dime a dozen it seems, and the 706's are way more expensive. First, what is the purpose of that little nub on the 706 just in front of the line roller? Second, what advantage is there to buying the conversion kit for a 704, verses simply cutting the wire off the bail and shaping the cone slightly?

[oldmanjoe]

Hour glass is when the top and bottom of the spool are fat and the middle is thin.


S shape crosswind helps level out the line lay.

I looked at mine today, and it kind of has that, but not really. Mine lays relatively flat. It appears that one in the picture is biasing towards the base, which would tell me the drag washer or shim under the spool needs to be thinner. Correct me if I'm wrong about this.

Can you buy the curved S shape like that for any of these older Penn's?

Correct a thinner under spool washer will move the bottom hump up .
 The S shape cross winds are home made pieces for the older penn

https://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/398759-braid-friendly-penn-706-with-a-new-crosswind/#comments

There is a bunch of old post there that guys played around with different ideas to correct line lays

[slugmeister]

Interesting, that looks like it might be something I can do for some of the original spinfishers. It would be pretty tricky to do that for a 722 or my 550SS. If I end up getting a 712, 706, or 704, I might give it a shot.

[foakes]

Welcome back.
The penn 930 is about the closest copy of an ambassadeur that I've seen from any reel company. I still think the amby is a better reel. But the 930 isnt far off. And it's a very handsome reel.

Fred was gonna look for a 910 spool for me but I think we both got distracted.

This may be a 910 spool, Jason —-

I don't have a reel to do a bench match on.

Maybe you can tell by the width measurement.

I have a couple of large drawers of 910-920-930-940 parts.

And this spool looks to match the width of a 910 post.

Best, Fred