How do you make braid slip on a spool

[oldmanjoe]

  Here is the pictures , just about 24 hours and the scale is still holding at 8 pounds . " I set it at 8 pounds , it was the second dog click ."

  What test can I try next ?  Grease the arbor ,more wraps ,hold less pounds for 24 hours .
NO disrespect .....
 " Dave  the in house science guy " or anybody else  can you dissect the last video , what I was expecting that when I started cranking ,first pound or two the line to slip , it did not .        I did not sh-inch up the knot   

[day0ne]

I don't believe that the tests as you are doing them will work as I don't believe that the braid actually slips on the spool but rather slips on itself when not spooled tightly. The effect is the same. You don't have enough line on the spool.

[jurelometer]

Here is the pictures , just about 24 hours and the scale is still holding at 8 pounds . " I set it at 8 pounds , it was the second dog click ."

  What test can I try next ?  Grease the arbor ,more wraps ,hold less pounds for 24 hours .
NO disrespect .....
 " Dave  the in house science guy " or anybody else  can you dissect the last video , what I was expecting that when I started cranking ,first pound or two the line did not slip .  I did not sh-inch up the knot   

This video where it slips aroud the 1:50 mark?

https://alantani.com/index.php?msg=452756

Any pulling on the line should be cinching up the knot during the first several winds. The line pulling force just has to overcome the arbor gripping frictional force to cause a slip. Both are changing at the same time.  I would guess that they don't increase proportionately- maybe something to do with the way the line bends around the knot or loop increasing line to line friction, making less force available to grip the spool. But my specialty is logic not physics, so take this with a grain of salt.


Not sure if that spray stuff actually decreases the COF.My take is that the better test is to go uncoated, or whatever you coat the spool with for protection.  Alan uses his favorite marine grease, I use carnuba wax.

In terms of what to do next- dunno- have to start messing with some full spool fills that slip and don't slip- seems like a lot of work and whatever you come up with, we are going to nitpick at .   

Already some useful stuff here with the progress that you have made so far. Thanks for sharing!
 

I don't believe that the tests as you are doing them will work as I don't believe that the braid actually slips on the spool but rather slips on itself when not spooled tightly. The effect is the same. You don't have enough line on the spool.

I was thinking about this too, but went with the theory that this is unlikely.  For this to happen, the top of the spool has to be all bound up, and as you remove line, you are tightening up loose  coils deeper in the spool.  This part seems somewhat plausible, but the effect should be short lived.  It seems unlikely that you could successfully tighten up a large amount of coils deep in the spool by pulling on the end of the line. 

Easy enough to test- if the slippage continues indefinitely and somewhat evenly- then the whole fill is slipping -all the way through the arbor knot.  If it slips for awhile and then completely stops slipping, your theory provides a better fit. 

-J

[oldmanjoe]

 Ok  The slip at 1:50 , is me loosing the drag . You can see it in the spool side .
    I though the spay was going to take the cof to zero .
 I will try some different lubricants during the week .

[jurelometer]

Hard to tell what the spray is going to do cause it might interact with the coating.  Tribology is too weird for me to understand. Just seems better to test it the way you are going to fish it. Hard enough already to figure out what is going on.

I am starting to wonder if slipping is simply just caused by not making sure everthing is tight until you have enough wraps to create a compressive load to hold the arbor knot in tension.  No such thing as a truly locking arbor knot.  If the first few layers are not tight, we are probably screwed.  If we wrap a a couple turns tight, but the don't pay attention and wrap the next twenty or so loose while we are getting  our fill going, then  filling the rest of the spool with tight wraps may not save us.  Might make things worse...

Sometimes the simplest explanation is the best one.  Dunno.

-J

[oldmanjoe]

   This arbor knot is 100 % slip proof .  You have to break something to get it to slip

[Keta]

Yup.

[oldmanjoe]

  I had to satisfy my curiosity so here goes .    Red grease the arbor all the way around , only half of the spool across .   Loosen the knot , put a pencil to to make the loops all the same.   Than move the loops over the grease arbor .  Than just crank it up .  About half way I had to dial in a little more drag and then continue until I maxed out the scale .     I think this should have failed , what did I do wrong ?

   

[boon]

I think "braid slipping on the spool" is a misnomer. As you have found, it's quite hard to make braid slip on the spool arbor. When it's spooled too loosely, the line is able to pull up tighter on the spool, which gives the effect of line coming off the reel without the spool turning.

[JasonGotaProblem]

I'm just not convinced that it's braid loosening on a spool. That would eventually stop. The trick if you wanna see braid slip is to tie a bad knot. I've had it happen twice when I was just spooling line on to peel it off for guide spacing testing. Tied a crap knot. Line slipped at like 2# of drag. It was a pain to reel it in.

[jurelometer]

I think "braid slipping on the spool" is a misnomer. As you have found, it's quite hard to make braid slip on the spool arbor. When it's spooled too loosely, the line is able to pull up tighter on the spool, which gives the effect of line coming off the reel without the spool turning.

Covered earlier in the thread:

I don't believe that the tests as you are doing them will work as I don't believe that the braid actually slips on the spool but rather slips on itself when not spooled tightly. The effect is the same. You don't have enough line on the spool.

I was thinking about this too, but went with the theory that this is unlikely.  For this to happen, the top of the spool has to be all bound up, and as you remove line, you are tightening up loose  coils deeper in the spool.  This part seems somewhat plausible, but the effect should be short lived.  It seems unlikely that you could successfully tighten up a large amount of coils deep in the spool by pulling on the end of the line. 

Easy enough to test- if the slippage continues indefinitely and somewhat evenly- then the whole fill is slipping -all the way through the arbor knot.  If it slips for awhile and then completely stops slipping, your theory provides a better fit. 

But  easy enough to prove one way or the other if you run into one.

-J

[oldmanjoe]

Let me try again , with a simple test.   Tie YOUR arbor knot on a bolt , make two additional wraps  and see if you can pull the line around the arbor "slip "
Like this .  I can not get it to slip.

  There is a method to my madness , I want you to try to duplicate my little test ,pull two wraps off the bolt .

1-9292327464

A clove hitch with four wraps will not slip if the wraps are going in the correct direction.  The more you pull the tighter it gets. 

I agree with you ,not sure about clove hitch knot .

    

[MarkT]

The people who have it slip don't try as hard as you... which is why it slips!

[oldmanjoe]

The people who have it slip don't try as hard as you... which is why it slips!

" Friendly banter "    Like Fishermen who buy pre snelled hooks by the six pack verses the one who buy bulk hooks .   Beginning to understand why slip on shoes is the new fad .
 

[MarkT]

If you're trying to fail, you're going about it the wrong way. You start with good knot cinched down tight and then tight wraps on the spool. Try tying a bad knot, not cinched down and then put the line on without much tension. Then you'll succeed, if that's what you call success!