Ball-Bearings, Cups and Bushings; Spool Speed Control

[Gfish]

I was rebuilding a mostly aftermarket Jigmaster 501 and noticed something that I didn't realize was important when I first assembled the Cortez Classic plate kit about 9 years ago. The ball-bearing(b-b) cups were designed to eliminate a problem that can cause b-b damage and make casting/fast line release controls a "thumb-only" practice.

I have no problem using my thumb for line release, but casting  repeatedly even with a wet thumb is hard on the skin.

What about the cup?

 First though, the problem: To me this warning from the 89B Penn Manual (mid-80's) indicates a design issue(picture1),
namely there is nothing to keep ground-down part of the spool shaft from generating axial force on the inner b-b race if one were to slow down the spool spin by torquing down the adjustable tail-plate cup(picture 2). I have thought that toasted b-b's on all the used Senators I've bought were due saltwater corrosion, now I'm not so sure. How many people read and adhere to the all the manual instructions?
The b-b sits on a ridge in the bottom of the cup that contacts the outer b-b race, allowing an applied axial force on the inner race from the opposite direction by the thick diameter edge of the spool shaft to tweak the poor ol' b-b. Notice in Picture 2, there's empty space in the bottom of the cup, behind where the b-b sits.

Picture 3&4 shows how the cups should be designed. These are the C. C. Cups I mentioned above. That little cylinder molded into the cup bottom should contact the tip of the spool shaft leaving only the proper radial force on the b-b.

Continued next post with another example of a "thumb-only design" and some bushing designs.

[Gfish]

Next, another example of a bad design from an Accurate Jigmaster Magnum. Also, some no b-b designs from Abu, a late 60's 9000 conventional and a 5000 baitcaster. I really do prefer bushings. I wish the H - type Senators(113H on up) had come with a bushing option. A b-b Jigmaster 505/6, both b-b cups with no spool control features. I couldn't remove the b-b from the 505/6 head-plate cup easily, which is another reason I prefer bushings.
Notice on the Abu 5000, (picture 5)the cup has a ridge in the bottom so the flexible brass plates(the round ones might be a little stiffer than the square  ones)can push on the axel shaft and provide a slight spring-like effect for more or less pressure/cast control. Last picture; Penn bushings.

[MACflyer]

Good observation and write up G. Pics helped to see what you're saying about how the thicker part of the spool shaft could damage a bearing. A while back, replaced a sideplate on a Newell due to damage from spool shaft. The lip where the bearing seated was completely worn down.

[jurelometer]

Even with a tight spool cap, the axial load on a star drag spool bearing is going to be relatively minimal compared to  what we see on a lever drag reel that are using axial load on these bearings to generate drag plate pressure.

There are axial load ratings for ball bearings.  For the type used in reels, it will probably be in the range of 10-30% of radial load, mostly depending on how wide the bearing is (skinny bearings have smaller balls, and therefore smaller tracks).  If you think that your hot rodded jigmaster can handle 15 lbs of drag, then the bearings in the spool cap are going to be within spec  handling up to somewhere  within 1.5 to 4.5 lbs of side load - probably closer to the 4.5 end.  That is a lot.

There should be some float in the fit on the  star drag spool shaft, as axial load will inhibit freespool performance, but you don't want the spool to be rattling around axially either.  I would wager that you would get pretty terrible performance before you reached the point of bearing damage from a over-tightened spool cap.

You got me thinking  about the relative benefits of this design vs the alternative design with that tiny "dot"  plain thrust bearing in the cap that rub against the spool shaft.  Thanks for posting this!

-J

[Keta]

If the spool end play on a Penn reel is properly adjusted and is not misused for "cast control" there should be little or no side load on the spool bearings of a star drag reel.

Ball/roller bearings are not realy needed on most fishing reels and in the handle it is a scam to fool the uninformed.   Spool bearings on LD reels is one exception.

[Gfish]

Well, I see guys here shore casting heavy weights with 113H's(seems to be their favorite reel, with the comparable Newell, a close 2nd), while "slide baiting". If they have them adjusted right, that's godda be hard on the thumb. I'm betting they use the tail-plate cup to slow down the spool. I have bought many used Senator reels and none have good bearings in them. Maybe saltwater corrosion + axial pressure?

While I'm talkin bout it, the "pounding bread into the cup bottom by using a pin punch the proper diameter" works better than anything else for me to remove stuck ball bearings from the cup. No solvents, no heat or freezing, etc. needed. Just got done removing the b-b from the Jiggy 505/6 cup showen above using that method. Thanks OC-1 Steve!

[oc1]

Well, I see guys here shore casting heavy weights with 113H's(seems to be their favorite reel, with the comparable Newell, a close 2nd), while "slide baiting". If they have them adjusted right, that's godda be hard on the thumb. I'm betting they use the tail-plate cup to slow down the spool. I have bought many used Senator reels and none have good bearings in them. Maybe saltwater corrosion + axial pressure?

While I'm talkin bout it, the "pounding bread into the cup bottom by using a pin punch the proper diameter" works better than anything else for me to remove stuck ball bearings from the cup. No solvents, no heat or freezing, etc. needed. Just got done removing the b-b from the Jiggy 505/6 cup showen above using that method. Thanks OC-1 Steve!

Toilet paper works too Gregg.

I can see casting a 4/0 with a thick leather thumb stall, a heavy weight and a Hawaiian physique.  When they outlawed taking bait or the terminal tackle out with a drone everyone had to learn to cast all over again.  I wonder if anyone ever tried to slow one of those horses down with magnets.