Mitchell reel rotation

[Gfish]

It's true. When using an MG 300 with light line and(or) bigger fast-moving fish like Steelhead, the stock drag may not be able to slip at the right time. A forefinger pressing on the underside if the rotor with the A/R off might work better.

[Midway Tommy]

I view back reeling as a recipe for disaster, so the way I see it, if I can't trust the drag on my spinning reel to work correctly every time it's needed then I don't think I can trust the reel. To me, the drag function on a spinning reel is it's overall most important function, and always has been. More fish have been lost because of a malfunctioning drag and/or adjustment than any other aspect of a spinning reel. That's why I only seriously fish ABU branded fulcrum drag  spinners.

I was taught, correctly, to play and work fish by using the reel drag system in conjunction with the flexion of the rod one is using. 

[Reeltyme]

Well, I've been watching this thread with interest. Tommy just nailed it. I love Mitchell reels. That being said, the combination of the drag and the rod action make up the major portion of fighting a fish. Of course, that's my opinion. Everything taken in consideration together, reel, rod, line and knots, they all work together. But the drag,,, so important in the chain. Back reeling, I save that for letting line out to secure the lure to the rod at the end of the day!

[Paul Roberts]

I remember in Mitchell instruction booklet  they recommend only use anti-reverse when fighting fish and most fisherman back-reel because their drag not reliable also cause twisted line

Hi Quang Tran. It doesn't appear that the Mitchell booklet has anything to say about back-reeling. It refers to reeling while drag is outgoing. Here's the quote from my ~1964 Mitchell 300 manual:

"Set the anti-reverse the instant a fish strikes. When a fish is taking line against the drag, do not attempt to slow him down by retrieving. You are accomplishing exactly nothing - and you are putting unnecessary twists in the line."

That said, I did back-reel a few Chinook salmon with a 300, that may have contributed to it sounding like a box of gravel eventually. I attribute this more to the multiple relatively soft metal gears in the 300's (a lot of teeth needing to mesh!). I did not know back then about all the shimming required to keep a 300 from complaining so loudly. I did acquire a DAM Quick 441N for my salmon fishing then, for its' big spool and 5:1 ratio. I could follow their runs without having to leggo the handle! EDIT: However, doing the math on known potential salmonid burst speeds, no reel could keep up. That is, with fresh strong healthy ones in peak water temps. The salmon I caught back then were not the bright chromers. On such fish, esp with appropriate sized reels, back-reeling would be pretty uncomfortable. Great with fish that don't make sustained runs, and require large reels. A large handle and rotor spinning that fast...you'd want to keep your fingers away til it slows down. But, for freshwater fish, esp any warmwater species, back-reeling has more advantages than disavantages.

My reference to 300's being nice to back-reel -and other older spinners- is due to the cup type rotor. I actually just picked up a 300 yesterday at an antique shop, 1964 NIB. And I found my memory was faulty on the advantage of clockwise back-reel rotation; The bail is also "reversed" of course which brings it into contact with the rotor feathering/controlling hand of the back-reeler. Not much of an issue with the cup rotor reels as the bail armatures are small. But a skirted reel with those big wings sticking up spinning in the wrong direction -toward the fingers rather than away- would be a problem for back-reelers.

[Paul Roberts]

Well... I long ago stopped trying to convert anyone to back-reeling. I know it sounds...scary. But it's not. In response to the naysayers, who've almost certainly never tried back-reeling nor learned it proper, I will say this: Back-reeling is easy, is not risky, and simply gives much better -no complete- control of fish. Giving line to a fish prematurely is what puts a catch at risk. I simply can't abide letting the fish, or a mindless stack of washers, dictate the fight. I've seen enough of, even bass pros, fumbling with drag mid-fight, or yanking line off reels at boatside. Ridiculous.

Drag is a crutch that no one dares to leggo of. I can say from decades of experience, that it is unnecessary -at least for FW fishes of all types and sizes. An exception might be big (15+) fresh chrome steelhead in 50F water with room to run. Not that back-reeling wouldn't work but drag would just make things easier on those longer runs. However, I've back-reeled plenty of Great Lakes rainbow/steelhead, even Chinooks, on spinning gear and never had an ounce of trouble. I can't speak to gigantic long running SW fishes. Some of those brutes might be a bit too much for any person or reel! If I ever get that chance, I'll let the mindless stack of washers do the work.

[quang tran]

Hi Paul , Mitchell don't say anything about back-reeling in their booklet but they do recommend only use anti-reverse when fighting fish . I start fishing with Mitchell reel and I do have lots of problem with their drag , may be from lack of knowledge and reel maintenance . I never back-reeling but I do tight it up on some reel that gave me problem ,later I switch to DQ and Daiwa and retire all Mitchell reel
 You mention that the drag on Michell are louder and i like that point , Just like someone replace car muffler with they call high performant muffler . I going to use some small Mitchell reel for crappie in winter this year , sound so sweet in middle of night

[Gfish]

I've found that letting a big runner do its thing while maintaining light finger pressure on an old-school round rotor is good for tiring the fish-out. Also if drift-fishing a river you can extend the drift by the same back-reeling method.

[Paul Roberts]

Quang Tran, I was referring to the gears being noisy on the 300's. As to the drag...I've never heard one!

Gfish, I've not SW fished with spinning tackle (I've been a fly guy there and caught many stripers, blues, and some albies on single action reels. Some cool advantages there too!) And, yes, there are lots of advantages to having the AR off with spinning tackle; At all times -except when keeping the lure on the rod's hook keeper -the only time I use AR. What else is it good for I always wondered?  

For those curious at all, two hands are at play when back-reeling:
-The crank hand, as most fish and runs can be handled with rod length and maybe a few turns of the crank, if even needed.
-And the rod hand which, as Gfish is talking about, keeps the rotor in check. If a fish is fast enough, either in a burst or a full on run, the crank hand can 'leggo the handle'. The reel easily gives line. When the fish slows, turns, or stops, the rod hand fingers are feathering the rotor, or I can simply clamp down on it. Then the crank hand is back on the job.

Skirted reels do have 'wings' that could be trouble, but only if the rotor spun clockwise. Or perhaps on really big reels, but I'm talking FW here. I do realize that, for left-handed fishers, feathering a skirted rotor would not work as well. The rotor wings would be spinning in toward the fingers, instead of away. Less an issue with cup rotors though. In fact, I realize I did this myself, as a righty, with my Mitchell 300's and their "backwards" rotor motion. You know, I back-reeled a few Chinook's to 24lbs with that trusty...box of gravel.

One big advantage to back-reeling chinooks from terra firma (pier fishing) was not having any line twist build up over the course of a fight. I remember a buddy's long fight with a 26lber, using drag, and his line was so twisted by the end it was unusable. Protocol became having a spare spool or reel along just to deal with this issue. I don't know to this day if drag itself, over many revolutions, builds up twist. Or if the guys were inadvertently reeling against drag some during the long fights?

The biggest advantage is how fish fight when line tension is under precise real time control, vs having a drag slipping and letting a fish turn its head away from you. The head has to be pointing in your direction to bring em to hand. Otherwise you may have a prolonged battle with teh fish's considerable body and fin area. Want more fight when back-reeling, lower the rod a bit to release a bit of tension and let the fish bite into the water again -yee-ha! Otherwise, you really want that fish, don't want it wrapping up in weeds or wood, stalemating you in current, getting far away and affecting a fixed drag setting, on a short line at boatside, etc. Catching fish is all about controlling line tension. And back-reeling gives you that control, from the cast, through the nuances of presentation, strike detection, fighting, and landing.

I'm not the only back-reeler remaining either. We just don't tend to talk about it. Those that haven't used it couldn't possibly understand: https://www.outdoorcanada.ca/backreel-and-thumb/

Well, I guess I haven't totally given up on trying to convince folks that BR-ing isn't just for old reels with poor drags. It's its own world.

Boo-hiss I say of the new reels with no selective AR, only provided a clutch crutch! Save the clutch for... billfish and tuna?

[oc1]

When casting and retrieving with a spinner, the line is twisted as it is wound on the spool and then untwists when cast off the spool.  When line is pulled off under drag, it does not untwist the way it does with a cast.  So, a back and forth tug of war adds more twist every time the handle is turned.

[Paul Roberts]

We don't tend to notice small amounts of twist, except perhaps with certain fluorocarbon lines . But fishing certain lures (spoons, spinners), and accumulated drag use, can wreak havoc. Of course there's an easy fix, clip off the lure and hang the line in the water. Easy in a boat, not always easy along some shorelines.

[Gfish]

Letting a big'n run with the reel A/R off and fingering the rotor is part of a finesse system that gets me, it seems, more strikes. It was thought to me by my ladies father, mostly fishing big trout in lakes. Maybe some guy adopted it for spinning reels by watching Fly fishermen palm the rim of their reels.

My Steelhead/Salmon rig was a 9' Fenwick, with a good lower backbone and a sensitive tip, with the MG 300 and 10 lb. test line. Most places I fished were kinda crowded and most guys had long rods like mine but thicker and stiffer baitcasters. Ambassadeur's, Penn Levelmatics, and early Shimano's with 12-20 lb. Line were common. This was all bank fishing. From what I've seen though, drift-boat fishing was very best way to score consistently.

I'm not bragging(well, maybe I am...)but I usually got more strikes than others. My rig was lighter, casted further, and I was able to use less lead to get a good drift bounce. A good bounce on the bottom with pencil lead was a must to me. I could cast for a longer time than most others and  it seemed, have better control over my terminal tackle.
But..., it wasn't easy to fish around me when I hooked-up. Finesse means more time hogging the bank as you carefully play the fish on light line and let 'em run up or down the river. Guys would get pissed, waiting for me to land 'em. But I was young and self-absorbed and good at not paying them any attention. Plus there was my ego to massage. I have to admit, my SOB self used to get a kick out of those guys shouting advice at me while their fish-less  selves stood by and could only watch.

[Paul Roberts]

When casting and retrieving with a spinner, the line is twisted as it is wound on the spool and then untwists when cast off the spool.  When line is pulled off under drag, it does not untwist the way it does with a cast.  So, a back and forth tug of war adds more twist every time the handle is turned.

Thanks, Steve. Which makes me wonder, there are those revolving line winders one can get for spinning reels. If they manage to put the line on a spool untwisted, say the way a tackle shop line winder does, the first cast would create twist. The retrieve might untwist? Unless the lure is stationary -not allowing the twisting/untwisting of the line on...cast or retrieve... Do I have this right? I think I'd have to see this empirically, can't quite visualize it. This is a thread topic all itself. Apologies to the OP, Quang Tran.

[Reeltyme]

Personally, I use ball bearing swivels. Do they eliminate all line twist,,,, no. Do they eliminate some,,, yes. Do they affect the action of the lure,,, fish are not that smart in my opinion. All my opinion.

[quang tran]

Personally, I use ball bearing swivels. Do they eliminate all line twist,,,, no. Do they eliminate some,,, yes. Do they affect the action of the lure,,, fish are not that smart in my opinion. All my opinion.

That's the twist from lure as spoon and inline spinner ,we get these twist even on bait casting reel ,swivel eliminate these twist but won't help the twist from spinning reel .Swivel do effect the action of some bait suck as Rapala

[Paul Roberts]

While we're veering off on many courses here (good stuff I think), and quang tran is OK with it...

I use a ball-bearing swivel with spoons, also with large spinners when using a wire leader. With smaller spinners I tie direct. One thing I do to reduce twist with spinners is to bend the line tie wire at about a 40-45deg angle, keeping the line tie loop horizontal which allows it to plane a bit. Together these help keep the lure from rolling over. It still collects some twist and I will snip, release the twist, and re-tie every now and again while I fish. The Mepps #3 Aglia is a favorite, and virtually forgotten, bass lure. Retrieved straight in with speed and direction changes. That and the #2 are great in very clear wintertime waters too, yo-yo'd like a blade bait. They take it on its sliding gliding somewhat erratic fall.