Mitchell reel rotation

[quang tran]

Since I moved to Houston ,TX I very seldom use inline spinner ,they don't seem to work good here ,only work for white bass but I prefer to use jig for them as it easy to fish close to bottom and it's cheap to loose some  . Large mouth prefer plastic worm ,spinner bait or bass jig . They are stocking some small lake here with rainbow trout ,spinner work good but i don't find much fun to fish for them .I still have lots of Bluefox and rooster tail unused

[Paul Roberts]

Yes, spinners are getting expensive, and they are snag risky, esp around wood. There's some ways around that -the snag potential- but it's true they aren't cheap. Try a larger Mepps Aglia. They work well in open clear water, move a lot of water yet give off few bad cues. If they work in NY, PA, and CO, where I've fished them, they'll work in TX. Lotsa good lures, so little time though.

[oc1]

Thanks, Steve. Which makes me wonder, there are those revolving line winders one can get for spinning reels. If they manage to put the line on a spool untwisted, say the way a tackle shop line winder does, the first cast would create twist. The retrieve might untwist? Unless the lure is stationary -not allowing the twisting/untwisting of the line on...cast or retrieve... Do I have this right? I think I'd have to see this empirically, can't quite visualize it. This is a thread topic all itself. Apologies to the OP, Quang Tran.

That's right Paul.  But there are two other ways to load line on a spinner.  (#1) You can put the spool of line on an arbor and let it rotate as you load it on the spinner.  Or, (#2) you can lay the spool of line on a flat surface and let it uncoil as you crank the spinner.  If you set the spool of line down in the correct orientation (label up or label down) then each coil that comes off the spool of line will counteract one twist being imparted by the reel rotor.  This helps a little.  But the trouble is the spool of line is usually a much larger diameter and circumference than the reel spool.  So, the reel's rotor rotation puts several twists in the line for each twist being counteracted by the coils coming off the larger spool of line.

But, regardless of how the line is initially loaded, the important thing is that the reel imparts twists when casting but removed twists at the same rate when retrieving.  So, twist does not build up and become a problem if the drag is never used and the lure  doesn't spin.  A certain amount of twist is, thus, inevitable but it does not really become a problem if the line doesn't coil up on itself a lot when there is some slack line.

To help visualize it, take a piece of ribbon and pretend you are going through the various permutations.

[Midway Tommy]

Something I learned many, many, years ago was to never turn the handle when a fish is taking out line against the drag. I don't seem to notice too much excessive line twist if line is just being pulled out, but trying reel against line being pulled out really exacerbates line twist and excessive looping. I exclusively use 6# & 8# mono so I regularly hook my lure/line to a tree and stretch the first 50 or 60 yds since it's so easy.

[oc1]

Yeah, but Tommy, you get the same twist build-up effect in a back-and-forth battle where the fish pulls line out against the drag and then that line is wound back on with the rotor.

[Reeltyme]

That's the twist from lure as spoon and inline spinner ,we get these twist even on bait casting reel ,swivel eliminate these twist but won't help the twist from spinning reel .Swivel do effect the action of some bait suck as Rapala
[/quote]

I don't really agree with your point that the swivel only applies to the lure twist and not the line. The swivel allows the line to spin as the lure remains in its designed position. As you reel and the amount of line left past the end of the rod gets shorter, the amount of twist in the line increases. The swivel will allow the line to "untwist" to some degree. It's like holding a rope that's tied at the other end and twisting it. At some point the twist starts to double over on itself and knot. Add a swivel to the tied end and again try twisting the rope. Again, like I said before, the swivels do affect the action of a lot of lures I just don't think that a fish that can be tricked into biting just about anything you throw in the water is smart enough to decide if a lure is acting correctly. Just my humble opinion!

[Gfish]

I always have about 20" of leader between a lure and the main line. And every lure gets a ring on the front. About a minimum of 4' between slow trolled bait and the swivel. Best is a ball bearing swivel, but the line will still twist some. The down-side is 2 extra knots at the swivel.

[Paul Roberts]

...
But, regardless of how the line is initially loaded, the important thing is that the reel imparts twists when casting but removed twists at the same rate when retrieving.  So, twist does not build up and become a problem if the drag is never used and the lure  doesn't spin.  A certain amount of twist is, thus, inevitable but it does not really become a problem if the line doesn't coil up on itself a lot when there is some slack line.

To help visualize it, take a piece of ribbon and pretend you are going through the various permutations.

Excellent description, Steve!

Tom, yes reeling while drag is outgoing is the fastest way to put excessive twist in line. But twist does build up over time, with every pull on the drag. It may take some time to build up, except with large long running fish it becomes painfully noticeable, esp with fluorocarbon, less with braids.

Ball bearing swivels help some, anywhere on the line. Some lures, and rigs, can be line twisters. And loading line onto reels, even when done "correctly" adds some twist.

My fix, for all of the above -besides back-reeling- is to get ahead of the inevitable accumulation, by hanging a free line in the water behind the boat, walking a shoreline, or hanging in stream current. As a back-reeler I don't have to do this very often, unless I'm using lures that twist line. I then may hang my line every few hours. Well worth the small interruption in the fishing. Twisted fishing lines can be a horror! A scientist friend of mine (not a fisherman) was coiling up some string and commented on how complex the physics of the forces operating on "strings" is. I responded that every fisherman has some understanding of that.

Ever had an "episode"? An EPISODE!!! (proper spelling) is when you get a minor tangle. You go to quickly untangle it, and it gets worse. It wraps on a guide, catches a button on your coat sleeve, then a weed end, then a twig, then an entire F'ing oak tree! If you don't STOP right there it'll be wrapped around your neck so tight you'll be found beheaded! THAT IS AN EPISODE!!! I've come to realize when one is brewing. I then STOP, sit down (literally), and breath...Oooowwwwwwmmmmmmm... for several long relaxing minutes. And remarkably, the tangle unwinds itself!! "What the hell was that?" I always wondered. I now know: It was an "episode".

I always wanted to see a video of myself when one occurs, although I know what I will see. I'm moving too fast and causing it myself. I know it appears that there is some cosmic force or some mysterious physics going on. But no, I am the source of those mysterious forces, only egged on by an errant breeze; you know, the kind that can emanate from a butterflies wing.

[Gfish]

That's ok with me, getting excited when the bite is on and making mistakes. I still have that little-kid aspect to my fishing.
A great challenge for me is fishing at night and keeping my headlight off as much as possible.

[Paul Roberts]

G, for me it can happen anytime. Sometimes it happens away from water!

[quang tran]

The twist getting more serious on light line ,more problem on Mitchell reel than other reel and I fish at night quite often .
My fix is simple , Using shallow spool and change line more often with 4 lbs test and 6 lbs test ,sometime every trip . Shallow spool don't hold much line and I have enough to fish for the rest of my live . Also I used to carry an extra spool

[Paul Roberts]

Here's an idea!

[oldmanjoe]

When I get line twist ,I use this set up . It is 3 barrel swivels on a string tied to the post in front of the house . I put on another barrel swivel with a clip on the leader to hook to the 3 inline .   Walk off 50-75 yards than flip the bail and start reeling under pressure . Stop every 25-30 cranks and relaxed the line so the barrel swivels do their thing . This usually gets me through a day of fishing . Wash , rinse and repeat at the end of the day .

[quang tran]

Is it work like back- reeling ? I think Ryobi  made one similar long ago

[Paul Roberts]

That's pretty cool Joe. Interesting it takes 3 swivels to do the job. Might work better if they are spritzed with thin reel oil? I wonder if a large ball-bearing swivel would be even better. And it never occurred to me to oil a BB swivel. I wonder if a PTFE oil -that is supposed to bond to metal- would remain tenacious enough in use underwater? 💡

quang tran, yes same effect, with line going on and off spool the same. The reel pictured seems like an odd contraption to me, but if the rotor bearing is smooth and well balanced it may not feel too strange! And you wouldn't have to ever let go of the spinning handle when back-reeling -not that that happens all that often. I do question how robust the mechanism (dog?) might be that releases and re-engages the rotor from the drive train. Might be adding some complexity there that... a simple AR switch doesn't already cover.