Rise and Falls of the different fishing Manufacturer and their History

[Paul Roberts]

This has to be AI slop.

I watched the first part of the Avet "documentary".  I couldn't stand to watch more,

It is  riddled with both historical and technical errors. For example, the explanation of side load binding was ridiculously incorrect, and Avet did not invent putting ball bearings into lever drags before reels. Aargh.


It is pretty obvious that whoever is doing this does not have an understanding of the topic, let alone subject matter expertise. 

This thing is put together with strange, improperly used documentary cliches, and what is with the British accent?  And no credits?

This guy is cranking out "documentaries" by the day. Nothing about the originator other than  a link to a site selling fishing tips, which is probably more AI slop.

-J

My take exactly. I watched some of the Shakespeare video and was at first annoyed by the inaccuracies, both the quickly cobbled AI verbage and images, with clickbait titles. I was, still am, disgusted. I see they are getting views, which is solely what they were meant to do. Yuck.

[akroper]

I have not and will not view any of the videos.  I loathe AI slop.  I regularly send messages to eBay sellers that, even though I'd like to own the item they are selling, I will not be participating because they used the AI generated, generic item description.  If a seller is too lazy to tell me exactly what they are selling, they don't deserve my business.

[JasonGotaProblem]

Yeah I didn't have to click on the videos to know they wouldn't be up my alley. Just seeing how formulaic the cover image is told me most of what I needed to know, and comments here confirmed it.

We're all just beta testing this stuff for them for free anyway. At least those of us who participate.  Maybe in 5 years it'll be better.

[oc1]

Apparently, having a YouTube channel and making little videos can actually generate some money if you can mass produce the stuff.  The funny thing is, that makes you an "influencer".  What a weird and perverse concept.

I don't think I object to having information on AT.com pirated and used by some low-life to generate a few cents on YouTube.  Not pirating it sounds even worse..

[oldmanjoe]

This has to be AI slop.

I watched the first part of the Avet "documentary".  I couldn't stand to watch more,

It is  riddled with both historical and technical errors. For example, the explanation of side load binding was ridiculously incorrect, and Avet did not invent putting ball bearings into lever drags before reels. Aargh.


It is pretty obvious that whoever is doing this does not have an understanding of the topic, let alone subject matter expertise. 

This thing is put together with strange, improperly used documentary cliches, and what is with the British accent?  And no credits?

This guy is cranking out "documentaries" by the day. Nothing about the originator other than  a link to a site selling fishing tips, which is probably more AI slop.


-J

This post is not to be taken as being vicious . Joey wants to know what he missed .
What time stamp in the video that states : Avet did not invent putting ball bearings into lever drags.
I saw / heard 6 bearings instead of 4 .  Time stamp 5-6 minutes and again at 8-9 minutes .

The bushings in some reels did load up under long pulles and side loads , Ocean City long key for example .  I also saw pictures of bearing being flashed in the video ,I thought I saw 3 different styles 5.13 and 7.58

I did state in another post that the narrator spoke with a British accent , with that said they pronounce words differently than most of us  Americans and some of their phrases will make you scratch your head .

  Am I defending AI , No just keeping a open mind and thinking ...    Still in the classroom and learning .            If you don`t know and you don`t want to know , you will never know .  Another phrase from Grandpa .

[oldmanjoe]

Apparently, having a YouTube channel and making little videos can actually generate some money if you can mass produce the stuff.  The funny thing is, that makes you an "influencer".  What a weird and perverse concept.

I don't think I object to having information on AT.com pirated and used by some low-life to generate a few cents on YouTube.  Not pirating it sounds even worse..

Pirated is the new pirates of the ocean of the internet .

[jgp12000]

I didn't watch any of the videos either.When I saw "the rise & fall of Penn" title, thought that doesn't even make sense.Then after reading the other posts I am glad I didn't waste my time.I have been pulled in by bait clicker videos before the pirates are tricky.

[ExcessiveAngler]

I saw that crappy Mitchell video on another site. Was just disgusted and quite po'd, all at the same time. I do not support the use of this A-eye crap, not one bit! I realize it has it advantages in other fields, and wish it would just stay there. So many people believe all the information offered by it is totally true, that's dangerous!!! Wait till somebody makes an artificial video, then post it on social media, targeting one of your closest family members, like your innocent young daughter, who wouldn't hurt a fly! Just trying to destroy their life for no good reason! Truly hope it learns how to implode itself and just go away! Things were just fine without it! Let me know how you make out fishing one of these!

[jgp12000]

Any online support now defaults to AI I immediately ask for "live agent" it proceeds to ask what subject matter I need help with.I copy/paste "live agent" until I get a live agent.The phone trees get me ill & having to ask for my native language just pisses me off,sorry not sorry.

[oldmanjoe]

I saw that crappy Mitchell video on another site. Was just disgusted and quite po'd, all at the same time. I do not support the use of this A-eye crap, not one bit! I realize it has it advantages in other fields, and wish it would just stay there. So many people believe all the information offered by it is totally true, that's dangerous!!! Wait till somebody makes an artificial video, then post it on social media, targeting one of your closest family members, like your innocent young daughter, who wouldn't hurt a fly! Just trying to destroy their life for no good reason! Truly hope it learns how to implode itself and just go away! Things were just fine without it! Let me know how you make out fishing one of these!

I fail to see your point here .   At 18 minutes  Time stamp  " The Fall of the company" was sold to /, changed hands to 7 companies  the new model 300 is shown ,it was designed for the New generation  because the average age of guys using old mitchell 300 is 64 .

[jurelometer]

I want to commend Joe on not taking it personally as we all pile on bashing AI and these videos.

And I think he is asking a fair question about what is wrong with posting AI generated content.

I think there are two levels for answering that question: The first level is what is the utility of the content- is it accurate, reasonably organized and presented?  The second level is ethical - is it fair to promote content that these providers had no hand in originating but are profiting from, and what role should we play in the expansion of AI usage in general, considering the often discussed risks to society from AI in general and Large Language Models (LLMs) in particular?

I don't think that we need to debate the second level yet, because at this point in time, the content is inaccurate enough that it fails the first level test.  And by posting AI generated content here, we are increasing its weighting, causing it to be propagated further, and obscuring the the more useful contributions of folk here with actual knowledge, some of whom are subject matter experts.

This type of AI generated content has a reputation for inaccuracy, and several members with knowledge on the topics have jumped in to note the inaccuracies in several of the videos. 

-----
Using the Avet Reel documentary as an example:

Here is my recollection of the basic outline of the video: 

Shimano started out as a small bicycle parts manufacturer that grew into a major reel manufacturer which dominated the lever drag segment.  But the reels had shortcomings, including side load which affected outgoing drag.  A couple of Armenian-Americans Machinists started out as a small communications equipment manufacturer, then created a novel lever drag reel design that addressed these orignal design issues, and built Avet into a major reel competitor.  A nice clean, simple narrative following a standard documentary formula.

The reality: 

Shimano was one of many brands in the lever drag market. with a bit of a mixed reputation for their lever drag reels that varied regionally.  There was no reason to focus on Shimano other than to fill in a readymade cliche documentary formula.

Side load on lever drag-affected ball bearings causes resistance to the pinion turning- the big issue is that this makes winding more difficult, but does not affect the drag too much as both the drag plate and pinion do not turn when line is being taken. Avet used this same standard design in their original (quite successful) models, but actually had a bit worse reputation than some of the established brands for side load limitations. (Note to Joe: my apologies for any inaccuracies of the  documentary description in my previous, but it was too annoying to watch again, and I would argue that it is goofy/wrong and that I caught the gist of it.  The Ocean City Long Key is a star drag- so not an issue.  I am not aware of any lever drag reel of that era that id not use ball bearings for the drag plate loaded bearing points.)

I have no special insider knowledge of Avet, just a first gen buyer and a bit of a fan.  But I do know that Avet is one in a long line of small machine shops and manufacturers out of SoCal, mostly tied to aerospace and defense, that decided to get into the reel business as a side (Newell, Accurate, Tiburon, Abel, etc.) 

The original Avets were attractive anodized bar stock aluminum lever drag reels, made in the USA, focusing on the somewhat underserved niche of smaller lever drags.  Other than the anti-reverse, the Avet design was not particularly novel, but was simple and for the most part, well thought out.  The reels were competitively priced, especially for a USA made, bar stock lever drag.  The product sold well locally, and then spread, as the smaller sizes created a larger market for lever drags, which was originally mostly targeting large to  big game saltwater fishing.  As with the other manufacturers, Avet has evolved their designs to include models that support the higher drag loads that some market segments now demand.

Avet is still in the reel business (after more than 20 years or so?), which is pretty remarkable considering their USA based manufacturing and small size relative to Shimano, Daiwa, Okuma, and Penn.

Now maybe when someone asks an AI to generate a documentary on Avet, it will be a bit more accurate -aargh.

------------------

Boon started a thread not too long ago on whether we should have a hard or soft ban on AI generated content.    I was originally ambivalent, as I am not a big fan of unnecessary rules, and our volunteer moderators sometimes struggle to enforce the basic rules that we have already.  But I am coming around to Boon's point of view now.

As far as I am concerned, AI generated content has little to no utility and is accelerating the ens***tification of the internet, including this site.  I come here to get the best available knowledge on reels and to socialize with like minded reelheads. AI interferes with this goal. It does not enhance it.

-J

[foakes]

We all have likes and dislikes.

If there is a section of the site we don't like —- then just don't click on it.

My grandmother used to tell me that anything that isn't true and provable —- is a lie.

A big part of the AI problem is that information is so readily available to everyone nowadays —- and so much of it —- it is oftentimes taken for the truth —- instead of using common sense and research to ferret out the actual truth.

Best Regards, Fred



Best, Fred