Garcia Mitchell 408 Question

[morlock]

Well, the vintage reel accumulation continues... Stopped by a local Goodwill store today and got me a junk fishing pole, but with attached Mitchell 408. It was marked down to $4.95, was even less with my military discount. I just turned the pole back in for 20% off coupon right away as soon as I walked out. Man, I have to say, now I can see why this is so popular of a reel. The action is very nice, the bail trip is super smooth. This is the first time me handling any 308/408. A couple of questions. How much play, if any, the head should have? And is there any way to determine the age of this thing? It does have a red "High speed" sticker and the plate screw is also red. Thank you.

[Swami805]

Great find for $5

[morlock]

Yeah, so far, all my vintage reels came from the thrift stores. Just the other day I snagged an early Mitchell 302 for about the same money. Also came attached to the cheap pole. That's a good thing about the Goodwill stores, oftentimes they don't care what kind of reel is attached to the pole.

[morlock]

Yeah, so far, all my vintage reels came from the thrift stores. Just the other day I snagged an early Mitchell 302 for about the same money. Also came attached to the cheap pole. That's a good thing about the Goodwill stores, oftentimes they don't care what kind of reel is on to the pole.

[jtwill98]

If the reel is midnight blue, it was manufactured between 1963-1977.

There are differing opinions from collectors on the use of serial numbers used for dating these reels.

Some collectors believe Mitchell used unified global serial/lot numbering system across all models of Mitchell reels (300, 301, 304, etc.) that came off the lines in the Cluses, France. 

Others believe the serial number chart (below) listed in the Mitchell Reel Museum was exclusive to the Mitchell 300, 301 reels.   

If you go with the first group, then you can use this to date the reel.

1963: ~4,918,411 – 5,494,100
1964: ~5,546,867 – 5,953,668
1965: ~5,996,632 – 6,579,351
1966: ~6,656,941 – 7,276,825
1967: ~7,282,575 – 7,895,887
1968: ~7,959,216 – 8,570,524
1969: ~8,603,501 – 9,244,733
1970: ~9,295,633 – 9,963,012

If the serial number has a letter, than you can use the following:

A = 1971
B = 1972
C = 1973
D = 1974
E = 1975
F = 1976
G = 1977

I believe the midnight blue changes to a lighter tint of blue (sky blue) in 1978. Where the letters continued up-to 1988.

This site provides some visual clues to assist dating: https://kawakami176.wixsite.com/408legacy/time-laps. 

I don't believe the Mitchell 308, 358, 408,etc. have 7 digit serial numbers. If that is true then the chart above will not help you date the reel.
 
I will look tomorrow at my reels, I don't have any of them in my house, those reels are in my shop.   

[morlock]

Great info, thank you! Though the serial number on the foot is actually a 6-digit one. 538318

[jtwill98]

Below is a table of the Standard Mitchell 408 Production by year. 

I've have seen someone state they have a pre-1970 408 with SN 045940.

Since there is no indication of what the initial serial number was nor if they followed a cumulative serialization pattern, Its difficult to tell what year your reel was released.

Did they start with 000001 and keep the serials as a cumulative total -- no clue.   

Let's assume they did however, based on the serial number I believe your SN 538318 is considerably older and falls in the 1978 serial number range. If so, I would expect it to sky blue in color.  However, its possible (probable) the color change occurred mid- year after they ran out of midnight blue frames.

Year   Annual   Cumulative Serial Number Range
1963   2,070   000,001 – 002,070
1964   11,279   002,071 – 013,349
1965   16,108   013,350 – 029,457
1966   17,206   029,458 – 046,663  <- 045940  (1970 pre-production)
1967   32,491   046,664 – 079,154
1968   38,737   079,155 – 117,891
1969   45,567   117,892 – 163,458
1970   47,641   163,459 – 211,099
1971   41,928   211,100 – 253,027
1972   36,221   253,028 – 289,248
1973   43,578   289,249 – 332,826
1974   55,960   332,827 – 388,786
1975   46,854   388,787 – 435,640
1976   46,868   435,641 – 482,508
1977   46,895   482,509 – 529,403
1978   29,174   529,404 – 558,577  <- 538318 (Yours)
1979   13,979   558,578 – 572,556
1980   5,235   572,557 – 577,791

[jtwill98]

Let's assume they did however, based on the serial number I believe your SN 538318 is considerably older and falls in the 1978 serial number range. If so, I would expect it to sky blue in color.  However, its possible (probable) the color change occurred mid- year after they ran out of midnight blue frames.

I debunked this assumption, I checked three of my 408's that have midnight blue frames and each for them have serials greater than 865039 (865039, 938254, F208107).   

[jtwill98]

I found some interesting dating information for Mitchell Ultralight reels (308, 358, and 408) all lumped together.

Interestingly, the first 3,000 Mitchell 308 ultralight reels were shipped to the US without serial numbers.

According to Appendix Table 10 in George Saul and Dries Hanzen's book, Mitchell: The Reel Stories, Mitchell began prefixing letters (starting with D) to the serial numbers on their ultralight reels in 1974 (D - 1974, E - 1975, F - 1976, etc.).

If the data is accurate, that means my F208107 was manufactured in 1976. This table also helps date my other reels—865039 to 1969 and 938254 to 1970 -— as well as your reel-538318 to 1967.

Regarding that pre-production reel's serial number cited earlier (045940), I suspect the number was misread. Based on the table, a 408 with that serial number would pre-date the model's first year of production in 1963. Given the amount of research George and Dries put into verifying their data, a misread serial number seems far more likely than inaccurate table data.

Towards the end of 1974, Mitchell appears to have standardized their serial numbers, applying uniform start and end range designations across all models. From 1975 to 1983, serial numbers ran from [Letter]001101 to [Letter]365112 for letters E through N (skipping I and O).

[morlock]

1967 does sound right. After looking over that handy site you've mentioned, I think that's what I have. It has a red "Garcia" sticker, dust cap,but still a non-slit handle shank, old style bale and it's definitely a midnight blue color. Actually, I thought it was black until I looked at it more carefully.

[quang tran]

How much play, if any, the head should have?

A little play but it have to have some play , 408 should have more play than 308 ,it don't make sense but it work for me (408 have roller bearing and 308 have brass bushing ) . These are only 2 Mitchell reels that I still fish with ,It's just fun

[morlock]

I guess, the correct term would be the "bowl". Yes, it does have some play, I just don't have anything to compare it to. Like I said, it's my first hands on experience with 308/408 series. I am very impressed with this reel, especially how smooth the bail kicks off. I have a bunch of newer reels that I fish with, and none come close to the "feel" of this little guy. Of course, most of them are el cheapos, I don't think I paid more than $5 for any of them, all were bought used at garage sales, flea markets and so on.