A/R Roller bearing sliping ???

[Nessie Hunter]

Any one using TSI 301 on roller bearings getting slippage..
I have an Older Calcutta 400 (No Pawl) that is slipping after service..
Either the bearing/sleeve  is worn or the TSI is to slippery???

Customer just sent it back.... 
Would appreciate some input before I advise him to buy new parts BNT 1206 & 1207..
Aha, just got off the phone, Both new part Number (old ones discontinued)>
BNT 2247 & 2925....

I have used it on  lot of reels and never had this before, but with no pawl I am questioning myself..



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[JGB]

Nessie,

TSI is not too slippery for A/R bearings. The issue is wear on the bearing or corrosion. Some times a corroded A/R will seem to be working fine (the corrosion pushes the rollers up tight all the time) and after cleaning it out the wear shows up as a A/R that seems to slip under pressure. This can happen even without corrosion. I just had  it happen to a Torium 16 A/R that just had wear on it. Under pressure it would slid back until the dog stopped it. I compared it to a new A/R and it was clear that the A/R was worn. The new A/R sleeve fit slightly snug while the worn A/R sleeve was loose by comparison. The old A/R sleeve also was highly polished where the rollers contact it. I believe in this case the plastic spring tabs (against the rollers) had relaxed and did not push the rollers up tight as they need to be.

There is the possibility that the solvents in TSI 301 attacked the plastic spring tabs. I use TSI 321 to eliminate possible plastic or paint damage. It does not work quite as well in bearings (still very good) but is very good everywhere else and can be combined with CorrosionX.

FYI I use a blend of CorrosionX and TSI 321 for A/R bearings. 80% CorrosionX and 20% TSI. This does a good job of keeping water out of the bearing while still allowing proper A/R operation.

Jim N.

[Nessie Hunter]

Thanks!! ~  thats exactly what I was thinking to...


Ordering the parts first thing in AM...

[franky]

Good topic.

Btw, how do you clean out an ARB?  I came across some torium reels that have very dirty ARB's (greasey, too much oil, silt, etc.).  I don't want to soak them in lighter fluid fearing the chemical will do something nasty to the plastic surroundings.  I used a paper napkin and wiped it out the best that I could...but is still seemed kind of dirty.  Soap and water perhaps?

[Nessie Hunter]

franky;
My normal way if they are real dirty is to 'hard spray' them with WD40, Work the sleeve inside Spin them, then clean with Q-tip and dry them out good, Rinse & repeat as needed.
Until I see the Sleeve coming out clean...

Then some Reel-X or Corrosion X....

*I use WD40 to do this as I work inside the house, safer, less fumes & it works pretty good*

I will also hold the Sleeve (inner tube) with small Needle nose, and spin the bearing (often while in the side plate)...
Test it by trying to turn the side plate in opposite direction ~ should only turn one way...

Clean and working OK...   I feel its OK to use it...
This one threw me..   Did all the above....   When I bench test the reels (among other things) I thumb the Spool and turn handle to check the drags..   Never thought to pull line and see if the handle turned backwards!!!    I will now!!!
Also this reel has no Anti Reverse Pawl - just the roller bearing...




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[alantani]

i dunno, guys.  if an AR bearing slips even once, i treat it as damaged goods and replace it.   

[Nessie Hunter]

Alan, I hand turned the Sleeve/inner tube and it feels tight with no reverse motion at all.
Not the tightest fit but felt fine...

But when its back together (with new Carbontex washers) the drag feels fine till it gets to heavy drag.  Then pulling line out the handle turns....

Can also feel the diff in Smoothness from Drag working to Bearing/sleeve slipping...
How many of these with A/R pawl have I missed or will never detect???

Just slips at high pressure and only when assembled,  I figure the added leverage of the gears & ratio is just to much for it..... :-(

Best laid plans of men & mice...   

I never would have detected it in bench testing.
It went on a 2 day trip into Mex waters and the owner discovered it ~ sent it back...

BNT 1206 now BNT 2242   $8.90 (sleeve)
BNT 1207 now BNT 2925   $14.82 (Bearing)
Tax & Shipping - total  $27.92



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[franky]

i dunno, guys.  if an AR bearing slips even once, i treat it as damaged goods and replace it.  

I totally agree...

I also can relate to what Nessie experienced.  The AR feels okay when everything is disassembled, but when everything is reassembled, the AR slips when you put load on it.  The moment I get that, I take everying apart again and change out the AR.  Thanks Nessie for the WD-40 method.  I'll try the hard spray to get out the grit...then hose it down with water and blow dry with compressed air.

I also can relate to what Jim was saying -- sometimes a part can appear okay when its all dirty and gouped up with old grease and grit...then when you clean it...the part now has something wrong with it. 

[Ken_D]

Hi, Folks... Quick question RE: the sleeve in the Shimanos:

But first the backstory to the question: Locally, they just started to be sold at retail. The 400 and the 700. Folks that had them prior, bought them somewhere else.
I have just begun to work with these 2 models, and have not had A/R issues yet.

Now the question:
A: Does the sleeve exhibit a dark grey band in the center about one third of the sleeve, like Abu sleeves will.

B: Does the so-worn sleeve show 'dents' in the drak grey band, like well-used Abu sleeves do.

Thanks a tonne.  Kenneth A. D.

[Nessie Hunter]

Ken_D ~ Yes....

But the actual amount of wear is extremely hard to measure...

Like Alan says.   
If you in doubt, replace it...  So hard to Diagnose bad from  OK..

If this Customer had not had 2 ~ 400 size Calcutta's on this trip, he would have lost his light set up.....   Saved by the back up Reel....

I have been playing with this reel for a few days now.
The more I test it the worse it gets..  Rapidly going south!!!!

It now starts to slip at about 4 or 5 lb of drag.....!!!!




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[Nessie Hunter]

Parts in today from Shimano....
Surprise usually takes 3 days, this was overnight!!  UPS Ground...

Reel back together and at UPS Traveling back to owner.....

The Roller bearing and sleeve did the trick..   
Solid as a rock now!!!!!   

I will check them better in the future...  :-)



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