Problem with stainless gear sleeve

[wyatt earp]

I installed the stainless gear sleeve in my Penn 113 (black side plates). Everything went well until I tested the drag with my scale. I wanted to see what max drag would be with my unique drag stack of four HT100's. After a couple of pulls (at 24lbs drag) I pulled again and the line (50lb mono) snapped at the knot. I backed off the star but the drag did not ease up, it stayed fully locked.
I took the reel apart and the drags fell out normally, however, the main gear (which is steel) was stuck fast to the sleeve. I managed to get it apart by tapping with my nylon hammer. I noticed a slight groove in the hole of the gear and a corresponding raised portion in the sleeve. It looks like a pin that was not fully seated. I smoothed everything out with a fine file and sandpaper. Put it back together and everything is fine now.
Now to my drag setup. I got the reel from my father-in-law in the late 80's when I was fishing heavily. I modded it with Newell spacer bars but never fished it (I had a 113hlw). When I took it apart to fit the stainless sleeve, I noticed the drag setup consisted of four drag washers and the two spring washers were missing. I may have set this up myself all those years ago, but can't remember. The old washers are HT100's and show signs of wear, but I don't think the reel was ever fished, it's virtually brand new. I  did put new HT100's in.
So, my question is this, will this drag setup work?

[Alto Mare]

You are doubling what that reel is recommended for. When you say four drag stack, is it like so: HT100-Keyed, HT100-eared, HT100-keyed and HT100-eared, is this correct? is the last eared washer sitting flush with the top pf the main gear? You should be able to add one more and make it i+5, but be carefull how you fish it. Using 30lb mono would be better than 50lb, that reel is happy at around 12lb of drags.

[wyatt earp]

Thanks for the reply. The drag stack is HT100, keyed, HT100, eared, HT100, keyed, HT100, keyed. The last two sit above the gear. I assume this was done to compensate for the missing friction washers. As I said, I don't remember if I did this or my father-in-law did before he gave me the reel. I'm thinking he did as he was famous for losing parts and jury-rigging a solution. My main usage would be trolling for albies, hence the 50lb mono. I easily get 15 lbs drag + alot more if I crank the star down.
Also, is the steel main gear common? Everything I ever read about Penn was the bronze main gear.

[Bryan Young]

The last ht100 and keyed washer have no effect on the drag setting except for filling up additional space. Your drag setting seems high for that reel and may be up for some damage in the future.

[wyatt earp]

So everything has to be inside the gear to have an effect? The reason I went with the stainless gear sleeve was to be able to use more drag, ie 15lbs with 50lb mono. The main and pinion are steel, so what do you envision going wrong?

[Alto Mare]

You're at the max at 15lb, if the line doesn't give at that setting, you could fry your gears. The ss sleeve is a good upgrade, usually the tip of the sleeve rounds off before the gears go.It is a nice reels, just don't push it too hard and you should be ok. I still recommend a 30lb line though.

[George4741]

Also, is the steel main gear common? Everything I ever read about Penn was the bronze main gear.

I have steel main gears in my 111 and 113 Senators, as they use the same main gear, anyway.  I don't know how common they are, though.  I also installed 1+5 drags and a stainless gear sleeve in my 113 as added insurance.  With it's steel main gear, I figured it is somewhat stronger than my jigmaster, so I can push it harder.  I still wouldn't want to push it to 15lb and certainly not to 24lb.  In one of his tutorials, Alan said a 113 with a stainless gear sleeve turns it into a 40# reel with 12# of drag.  I don't want to exceed that.

Bryan and Sal have fished more out of the salt chuck than I ever will and offer good advice.

George

Correction, I have a steel main gear in my 113 Senator only.

[Makule]

In one of his tutorials, Alan said a 113 with a stainless gear sleeve turns it into a 40# reel with 12# of drag.  I don't want to exceed that.

If you have the SS gear sleeve, and the steel gears, you should be able to exceed the 12lb confidently.  It's be brass gears and sleeve that give up under higher drag setting.  Still, if you're using 40 lb test, you'd probably not want to go much over 12 lb starting drag anyway.

Now all you need to do is to install SS dogs, SS doo-hickey for the pinion gear (brain fart), and a one-piece frame.

[Nessie Hunter]

The last ht100 and keyed washer have no effect on the drag setting except for filling up additional space.

So everything has to be inside the gear to have an effect?

I think what Bryan is saying is that the two "Keyed HT100 Keyed" is not functioning. 
It all spins together. 
So is just filling/spacing...

The rest of the lower drags are in order & working (in theory)...


.

[alantani]

i was cringing just reading this post.  check the black 113 dog for damage,  you will probably find some.  for the 113h, let's get a full drag stack in there.  the reel will be much happier! 

[wyatt earp]

When I took the reel apart (I'm getting to be an expert!) I did not notice any damage to the dog. I'm still wondering why the main gear stuck to the sleeve, but I'm suspecting that a pin in the lower portion of the sleeve wasn't fully seated and gouged the main gear. (see op for a description of this). Coincedentally, the original brass sleeve has a hole in the same location, but no pin. Anyway, I took care of that with file and paper, so that is now not an issue.

What I'm gathering is I should revert to the original 3 stack drive and obtain the correct washers, which are currently missing, or go with the proper 5 stack by getting new washers. And go with 30lb line. And get a 113h or hlw for 40-50lb line.

Can I get a stainlees dog for this reel?

[alantani]

the black side plate 113 is fine with the stainless steel gear sleeve, but you need a carbontex drag washer under the main gear and then five of the #6-60 drag washers inside.  you also need a couple of extra metal washers and a new dog.  a jigmaster power handle completes the transformation.  this reel is now good for 40# mono and a 20% drag setting of 8 pounds.  the spool is too big for 30# (holding 450 yards, 400 of which you will never use).  let me know if you have trouble putting together these parts.  

oh, and after all that stress, what kind of shape are the gears in?  i'm guessing they are damaged.  

[wyatt earp]

I have equipped the reel with an aluminum spool, penn handle 24-55, and the aforementioned newell spacers. The reel already had steel gears, so the next logical step was the stainless gear sleeve.
After installation of the stainless sleeve, I tested the drag for 30% of the 50lb mono on the reel. I got the required 15lbs with adjustment to spare. I wanted to see what max drag would be so I tightened the star all the way down. This is where I got the 24lbs. On the very next pull the reel locked up and the line snapped.  I completely disassembled the reel, where I found the gear stuck on the sleeve. The gears are fine, except for the groove in the hole which I suspect was caused by a burr on the sleeve. Does this sleeve use a pin near the base? As I stated above the brass sleeve has a hole near the base, but no pin. So, I assume the lock up would have ocurred sooner or later and was not caused by locking the drag down. BTW, I did intall one of the old HT100's under the sleeve as well as the new HT100's in the drag stack.
And, if the extra drag washer and keyed washer only provided spacing and had no effect on the drag, how do you surmise I get such a high reading? My only thought is the gear and sleeve interface had already begun to cause the burr.

[alantani]

the hole at the base of the brass gear sleeve is an oil port.  maybe there was metal to metal contact somewhere that just seized.