TSI 301 versus Hot Sauce

[Rockfish1]

Hello All from the Chesapeake.....newbie here - decided to stop lurking and actually sign up!

I realize that it seems most here are heavily into bigger tackle than I am, but here goes.

My first question (for Alan or anyone with experience in this) is:  Probably 90% of my reel maintenance is on small baitcasters......love my old Shimano BMP250's for instance.  The bearings are 3x10x4's in those.....fully shielded.  I've been cleaning by soaking in naptha or 90% IPA (no - not beer - isopropanol is IPA to those of us in the chemical's world), followed by a light compressed air blow, resoak, then set bearing flat on a throwaway diaper and blow again.

Yes...a diaper:  Pampers are about the most absorbent thing on the planet....they'll suck moisture/fluid out of stone!

After cleaning I've been putting a drop of Hot Sauce on next to the inner race and spinning the bearing stuck on a pipe cleaner to distribute, wipe any excess and install.

If anyone knows a better regimen for clean/lube - I'd love to hear it.

I'm not real happy with the longevity of Hot Sauce on the bearings and wonder if anyone here has experience using TSI 301 or 321 on these small bearings that one wants to be really fast??  I've tried Rocket Fuel, and a couple of others and really didn't get much better performance than Hot Sauce so far.

Question #2: I'm hesitant to try removing shields on these itty bitty bearings - and most everything I see on Boca, etc. is also full shields.  Anybody know where to get SS Abec 5's or better with just one side shielded in the little 3x10x4 size?

By the way: Rockfish is Marylandese for Striped Bass........we LOVE 'em out here!  It's a real rush when a Rock SMASHES a popping plug!
About the only thing to compare for me is hooking up a 30# plus salmon on the same little baitcaster and watching him BURN drag.  Obviously I'm a light tackle guy (must be my misspent youth plugging bass in Georgia) and not a tuna chaser...

[alantani]

you will know that the bearing is clean when you can give it a gentle puff of air from the compressor and have it spin for 10 seconds.  i'm just using carb or brake cleaner to clean open bearings and i will get that much spin.  tsi has lasted 2 years with my reels.  i have never found these smaller bearings without shields. 

[Pro Reel]

The only way to get the small bearings without shields from Boca is to step up to the Orange seal ceramic hybrids. They have rubber seals that are very easy to lift out. You can also buy shimano ARB open bearings, but they are more expensive that the boca hybrids and are not as high of an abec rating.

Just soaking bearings, especialy with shields on them, will never get them completly clean. You have to get the solvent to move through the bearings and rinse them out. Just soaking will dilute the old oil, but won't remove it all. An ultrasonic cleaner works great if you put the bearings in a glass jar with solvent and set that in the water in the tank at same leverl as solvent in the jar. The sound waves break up the particles and causesair bubbles to form and pop which lets solvent flow in and out. Keep changing the dirty solvent until it stays clear and the bearings will be clean.
Another good metod is to spray brake clean through the bearing, Thats a lot easier if you get the shields off but can still be done with them on. Just use an extension nozzel right against the gap and flush them out.

[Rockfish1]

Thanks Kevin - good stuff.   Sent you a PM about Rem Oil you might find interesting reading.

Hal

[Pro Reel]

Thanks Kevin - good stuff.   Sent you a PM about Rem Oil you might find interesting reading.

Hal

Rockfish says the rem oil in the spray can might not be very good corrosion protection after all. He was in on development so I think he must know. If thats so, I might switch back to using a drop of TG's tournament oil to coat ceramic hybrids, but I would prefer a fine mist spray can of a good protectant for those bearings so that I can get an ultra thin even coat on everything without slowing them down. Any recomendations to try?

[Bryan Young]

Please post the information so that everyone can come up with their own assessment of the lubricant.

[Rockfish1]

Ok...I'll share what I know (and what I don't) about Rem Oil.

Background: I was PMing with Kevin because I didn't want to post something that might come across as disputing his results with Rem Oil in the ceramic hybrid bearings.  We've talked and we're cool.

What I told him was that I was there (at Dupont) in the Finishes part of Teflon when the first Teflon(registered Trademark) lubes were made and that I was not at all confident of using Rem Oil to prevent corrosion.

In the beginning there was "Wet Teflon" - which later became Rem Oil, and "Dry Teflon".  The wet came as a liquid or a spray, the dry was just a spray. The kicker here is that "Teflon" is a registered Trademark, which does NOT mean that something marked that way has to contain what the world knows as "Teflon" - the polymer PTFE (poly tetraflouroethylene).

Ok...with me so far?  Calling it Teflon as a trademark doesn't mean there actually has to be any in it!  I'm looking at a bottle of Rem Oil right now......says "with TEFLON(r) Lubricant".......that does not mean there is any actual PTFE in it!  PTFE itself has lot's of lubricity as a particle, but doesn't inherently address corrosion prevention one way or another unless you completely coat something with it and bake it to sinter the particles.

I don't have any way of knowing if any changes were made after Remington was sold by Dupont - but I'd be surprised if there were.  I do know that I have both the old Wet Teflon and some of the new Rem Oil and I can't discern any difference.

Now back to what I KNOW: The "Wet Teflon" didn't actually contain any! The chemistry rats said it was an acid ester (which means acid reacted with alcohol as best I understand it) lube.....the "Dry Teflon" did contain PTFE.

We had all sorts of testing done to use in marketing and Wet Teflon/Rem Oil did pretty good......stacked up against stuff like WD40 and 3-in-1 oil.  What that didn't tell you was that it isn't all that great in comparison to a lot of other things on the market for specialized uses.

I initially used the stuff in guns and reels because I thought it was going to be great.......it did not prove to be the equal of other things being marketed for either use.  I had issues with it's lubricity lasting as long as I wanted and with corrosion in guns used in the rain compared to what I had been using.  I also had issues with it lasting in reels....just didn't hold up as well as I wanted at all. I didn't have any issues with actual corrosion in reels - EXCEPT - on the reel foot/cross bars junction in a Shimano BMP250 SG where spool "spin off" of the Chesapeake's mildly salty water started problems. I abandoned it for reels after that first season. So, let's see, I got it for FREE and I quit it for stuff I had to pay for.......

Now, to what I BELIEVE (no actual proof):  I think that Rem Oil doesn't last as long as I'd like it to because it's low viscosity comes from the low amount of the actual "goody" in the mix versus solvent and that it "washes" off too easily to suit me.

I readily admit that I know nothing about the ceramic hybrid bearings and that Rem Oil might give enough corrosion resistance (which is all Kevin wants of it as I understood him) to be Ok........so I won't badmouth that use.  I'm certain we could find something better for corrosion resistance, but don't know about accomplishing it without slowing the bearings down.,,,Kevin specifically said he wants a spray in order to just "mist" the bearing.

I did start thinking (always dangerous) after talking to Kevin.  One great product for corrosion resistance and adequate lubrication in guns is called Eezox. The guncare version sprays on and pretty much dries up leaving a barely noticeable film.  I'm sure it would be great spray for corrosion resistance in a reel if you don't want to grease a surface....let's face it: Reel components are pretty much all more corrosion resistant to begin with than gun parts!  Eezox also makes a product called "Reel Boat" that they claim is special for reels and such - Has anybody seen or tried it?

[Nessie Hunter]

http://www.eezox.com/

[Rockfish1]

Been trolling through some gun care forums and see that Eezox appears to perform great in some reasonably scientific (and some just plain weird) tests as a corrosion preventer.  That said, there was some mention of damage to some plastics and not to others - caution around plastics is probably prudent.

I dug up the MSDS and it reminds me of the one for TSI 301 because the main solvent mentioned is 1,1,1 Trichloroethylene.....which was used as drycleaning solvent before 1,1,1 Trichloroethane (which is in TSI 301 according to an MSDS I found that apparently predates the current one).  This kind of amazes me because, as Alan and I discussed in a PM, I thought both of these had almost completely gone out of production because of our wonderful "guvment" trying to get rid of anything chlorinated.

There is a strange reference in the MSDS about avoiding prolonged exposure to "white metal, ie: aluminum/lead".  This one is odd because it says on the can that it is compatible with all metals???  I know that I personally have used it for years in a shotgun with an aluminum receiver with no issues.  I'm guessing they mean prolonged exposure in it's liquid state - which doesn't last long if it is applied as directed in a very thin film....the solvent flashes off.  I am aware that the trichloroethylene is a pretty good solvent for lead as a liquid.  Methinks that since I have a can of the liquid version (don't have the aerosol) - I'll test some on the parts in an old Quantum baitcaster and see how it acts.

[JGB]

I vaguely recall something about these solvents producing acids that would corrode metal if water was present. This is only if it it stored in a closed container. I have a a can of Perchlorethylene (sp) (dry cleaning solvent) that I have to periodically solder the pin hole up in.
Nasty stuff but works better than gasoline for grip taping golf grips and Hypalon on rods.
Jim N.

[Rockfish1]

Got my can(s) of TSI 301 (liquid and aerosol) today.  Immediately took an old Shimano BMP250 that had fresh Hot Sauce in the bearings apart, hosed the bearings down with brake cleaner and spun 'em out - twice - then dunked 'em like Kevin does in TSI 301, spun 'em out and set on a diaper to dry.  Put the reel back together and...drum rollllllll.....there is an obvious improvement in spool spin!  What, nobody is surprised?...nah, I didn't think so.  Now to fish it a while and see how this wonder lube lasts for me........

[alantani]

it's been pretty amazing stuff.  we've made the tsi people very happy.