Penn Mag 10 (model 10) Slippery Dog Driving me Crazy

[tomolalla]

I've dismantled this reel several times and can't figure this one out. 

This reel comes with the usual star drag and free spool lever like a 109 but also has a direct drive feature and lever.  It is basicly a suped-up 109 with a magnetic spool control to help with casting.  I bought a Mag 10 in great condition, no corrosion and apparently little use although it is probably 20 years old or more.

The symptom:  It worked well for a couple fishing trips but now when I'm not in direct drive and using the star drag the reel handle will spin in reverse sporadically.  I really bad situation when a fish is on.  I seems like the dog is not catching.

My surgery:  I took the reel apart expecting to see a bad dog or dog spring but it all appears good.  When I spin the gear sleeve the dog catches securely and the parts look new.  I also checked my drag stack and replaced some old fiber washers.  I took apart the direct drive lever and it appears in good shape too. 

The result:
When I put it back together with the star drag engaged it reels fine in forward but when I reel in reverse it feels like the dog is catching then missing and I can reel in reverse for short 1/6 handle revolutions.

This is not only driving me nuts but my family is starting to worry as I fill the dining table with Mag 10 parts and tools every night trying something different. 

Can anyone help to clear my dining room table? 

[Bryan Young]

Can you attach some pics?  That would help me see what could be the culprit.

[tomolalla]

I have a Penn Mag 10, M-10 or if you prefer a Model:10 that has a problem.  It's basicly a suped up 109 with a magnet cast system and a direct drive lever.  I bought the reel used and is in great shape for a 20+ year old reel.  No corrosion and apparently little use. When I first got the reel I opened it up, gave it new drag washers and oiled and lubed it up. It worked fine for a couple fishing trips but now is a basket case.

The Problem:  While in in the star drag mode (not in direct drive) the reel handle will rotate backwards sporadically.  This is a tough way to catch a fish.  It is as if the dog is not catching.

Surgery:  I opened it up expecting a dog or dog spring problem but they are fine,  The dog engages when I have the gear bridge+sleeve in my hand and rotate the gear.  I also checked my direct drive lever and it is operating fine. When I put the reel back together, it rotates nicely in the forward direction while in the star drag mode but if I rotate in reverse I feel what I think is the dog slipping and sporadicly the reel will allow me to rotate the handle in reverse for a short distance ( about 1/6 of a complete revolution).

Ideas?:  I'm running out of ideas and the family wants their dining room table back, but I refuse to give up.  Can any of you pro's give me an idea of what to check next?

[George4741]

What kind of washer do you have under the main gear?  A stock washer or an HT-100?  Could it be interfering with the dog, not allowing it to fully engage the gear sleeve? 

[tomolalla]

OK, but it will take a day or so for me to do that. Although, everything looks fine to me.  Is there a certain part or mechanism I should focus my camera shot on?

Sorry if my post shows up twice.  I just sent another one before noticing that you sent a reply.  My first one doesn't show on my screen when I log in.  I thought it just didn't take.  My second one doesn't show either, but obviously you can see it.  Not sure what's up with that, but I'm glad you are receiving them.

Thanks for the help...

[Bryan Young]

I have a Penn Mag 10, M-10 or if you prefer a Model:10 that has a problem.  It's basicly a suped up 109 with a magnet cast system and a direct drive lever.  I bought the reel used and is in great shape for a 20+ year old reel.  No corrosion and apparently little use. When I first got the reel I opened it up, gave it new drag washers and oiled and lubed it up. It worked fine for a couple fishing trips but now is a basket case.

The Problem:  While in in the star drag mode (not in direct drive) the reel handle will rotate backwards sporadically.  This is a tough way to catch a fish.  It is as if the dog is not catching.

Surgery:  I opened it up expecting a dog or dog spring problem but they are fine,  The dog engages when I have the gear bridge+sleeve in my hand and rotate the gear.  I also checked my direct drive lever and it is operating fine. When I put the reel back together, it rotates nicely in the forward direction while in the star drag mode but if I rotate in reverse I feel what I think is the dog slipping and sporadicly the reel will allow me to rotate the handle in reverse for a short distance ( about 1/6 of a complete revolution).

Ideas?:  I'm running out of ideas and the family wants their dining room table back, but I refuse to give up.  Can any of you pro's give me an idea of what to check next?

[tomolalla]

I thought that washer (between the main gear and the dog) may have been old and the problem, so I ordered a new one from Scott's.  The new one is a fiber washer, different that the Ht-100 for the drag, harder material  It didn't make any difference.

[redsetta]

G'day Tomo,
The sleeve has a eight-tooth ratchet gear, so there will be some counter-rotation before the dog hooks up.
1/8th of a rotation is less than 1/6th, however, so there's clearly something else going on.
Are you certain the direct drive eccentric is fully disengaging?
Also, has the spring lost enough compression to not be fully catching each ratchet tooth?
Let us know how you get on.
Good luck, Justin

[tomolalla]

Hello down there,

I didn't mention that the reverse rotation is more severe when a fish is on or a heavy lead.  It will rotate several complete revolutions which creates an unwanted free spool and an inopportune time. 

The spring seems fine when I've disassembled the reel and have the bridge/sleeve in my hand.  Could the spring be failing under a load? 

The direct drive eccentric seems fine, I've taken it apart and the lever is a little loose, but is flipping the eccentric.  The plunger doesn't seem real spunky, could that be a problem?

Thanks and probably good morning to you.  I'll be hitting the sack pretty soon.

[redsetta]

G'day tomo,
If you can see the spring/dog working well when removed, it seems likely that the direct drive is interfering with the dog.
Given the lever is a little loose, the eccentric may be touching the back of the dog and preventing it fully engaging.
Good luck for tomorrow!
Cheers, Justin

[alantani]

i merged both posts. 

[tomolalla]

Hi Justin,

I'll take another look at the direct drive lever system.  That was one of my initial thoughts too, but there was nothing obviously wrong (to me).  I also have another M-10 that works well so I might substitute parts until something works.  I think I'll wait until tomorrow as my evening wine is starting to take affect. 

I'll try to post some pictures of the reel and the direct drive system if I can figure out the posting, etc. procedure.  My helper from Hawaii was interested in seeing a few shots.

good eve,

Tom

[tomolalla]

Justin and others,

It's been a few days before I got around to the reel so I'm not sure anyone is following this thread anymore, but I think I've fixed it.  I took a close look at the direct drive system as Justin advised.  I broke down another M-10 and replaced various parts one at a time with the M-10 that worked.  The exchanged parts didn't make a difference.  I decided that the only other part that could be tripping the dog was the pinion yoke, although I'm not sure it really could since the screws seemed to lock it away from the dog.  Anyway I thought I'd try something, so I flipped the yoke over and now the reel seems to work fine.  The entire free spool eccentric system seemed to be a little smoother too.  I haven't tested it yet under pressure but I think I got it.

Thanks for the help and if you think you know why flipping the yoke helped, let me know.

Tom

[Bryan Young]

Tom, I recently had a reel in for service with similar problems. Discovered that the washer under the gear was touching and sticking to the dog, and the corrosion between the dog and the gear plate wasn't very smooth. For the washer, I had to grind down the washer a little bit and sand down the corrosion on the dog and gear plate. Lubed and good to go.

[tomolalla]

Hi Bryan,

That makes sense.  I think I fixed it but if my reel starts acting up again I'll check into the washer near the gear.  I did think it may have had something to do with it early on, so I bought a new washer and it still didn't help.  Some of the Cals drag grease did squeeze out onto that new washer, I wonder if that could be creating some "stick" to the dog.  Did you grease that washer?

Tom