Braid basics

[Gaujo]

I have started trying to put a spectra on my reels, and run into trouble, and it's time to call on the pro's!

Knot questions
1) what is the best spool prep?  I have wrapped my spool core with surgical tape as I had read this is what charkbait does, is this the best practice?

2) what is the best arbor knot for attaching spectra to the spool?  

3) what is the best knot / method for joining solid braid to larger diameter mono topshots?

4) I figured out first hand why you need to have spectra under pressure as you reel it on, the line bit into itself in slack areas and the entire spool was a loss.  What is the minimum pressure I need to wind this on?  Im talking about 70lb spectra.  Also does this change as diameter changes?

5) is it ok to use the wind on type swivels to join my topshot?

6) how do u tie spectra to a lure?

7) it seems like spectra would make a great leader, is it good leader material?

8| are there special circustance spectra knots one needs to know?

9) Dyneema, Spectra, Dacron.  What are the differences when it comes to the different braids?  Do they all require their own knots, or what?

I tried to find as much info as I could but it seems like everyone working w braid is already way over my head.  I will update the original post as the pro's dispense the knows.  Hopefully when it's all said and done it will be good enough for the ol sticky.  

I hope to get a lot of information so we can end up with a good middle of the road guide.  I want to list the "very best" solutions, but when these are complex or hard to memorize, I'd like to have some some reasonable alternatives as well. I for one get overwhelmed easily (see: Bimini twist).

[Bryan Young]

Wow, you've asked some very good questions.  I would like to first start by saying "I am no expert by any means.

1.  Spool Preparation - It's best to wax your spool with a good car wax.   I used pure carnauba wax and polish it 3 times.  Then I apply in the center of the spool about 2 turns of flex wrap like this stuff from Johnson and Johnson http://www.drugstore.com/products/prod.asp?pid=149716&catid=59966&aid=338666&aparam=149716.  

2.  Securing line to the spool - I used to tie a nail knot but recently leaned from Jim a stronger method.  Tie a bimini in the braid to create a double line, then with the double line, wrap around the spool twice and tie off with a nail knot and cut off the tag end leaving about 1/4" or 5 mm of the tag

3.  Splices - Assuming that you are not using splice connections where the mono/fluorocarbon is inserted into the hollow braid, uni to uni is common.  Depending on how much time I have, I sometime use a Seagar knot (I think that is what they call it).  Others use a PR knot,...  If you search YouTube, there are many knot demonstrations for these connections.

4.  Spooling Tension - Jerry Brown's site specifies about 1/2 the expected drag pressure should be sufficient.  I prefer for the first 1/3 spool, at least 1/3 the breaking strengh then after that, at least 1/4 the breaking strength of the line.  There's a lot of debate on this one, and many cannot agree or even agree to disagree.

5.  Swivel splice - This is very common among trollers using barrel swivels.  I'd say it depends on whether your rod has all rollers.  It's okay, but I prefer a direct splice or loop to loop connections.

6.  A blood, palomer,...  I'd say a knot that you know how to tie well, and test it.  Note, that even surfaces that appear smooth is not really smooth enough for braided line and knots should be checked and changed every so often due to the abration.  If you take a close up picture of a hooks eye that looks smooth, you will see the inperfections that abraid the braided line.

7.  Braid as Leader - I've not used braid as leader material, but I have tied lures directly on the main braid.  I have not used it for leader, so I cannot give you definitive results, but think if you tie directly to a hook and hook on a live bait, it would be a pretty darn good method to give the bait fish the least amount of resistance as it swims in the water.  You guys that do long range trips, have you ever done this?

8.  Special Knots - I don't think there are special know you need to know unless you are trying to accomplish something, such as splicing.  If you google splicing braid to mono or fluorocarbon, you will get a lot of hints of the different knots.  Learn a few well and know the limitations and you will do fine.

9.  Dyneema and Spectra are essentially treated the same.  Spectra is a trade name for gel spun fiber line where Dyneema is a generic name for gel spun fiber line if my memory serves me.  Dacron is a braided line of sorts, it's thicker and a lot cheaper.  it may be affected by UV, salt, etc. where as Dynemma and Spectra are not.

What ever you use, mono, braid, fluorocarbon, wire, your weekest link will be the knots or splice connections.  Test your skills by tying those connections and see how they are breaking on average and set your drags at 30% or so of based on the breaking resistance of the connecton.

Have fun, and you will not regret going to braid.  it's great.

Lastly, read all of the safety issues regarding braid.  tight braid, if running, will slice you like a razor sharp knife.  protect yourself and you will be fine.

[Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B]

ok, i'm like bryan not an expert but been doing these;

1. yes that's how i do it, surgical tape so it doesn't slip, so far so good.

2. i wrapped the tag end twice around the spool and use a uni knot or an arbor knot.

3. i've used the bob sand's knot, slim beauty, albright, alberto knot and the yucatan(worm knot and the  bimini  twist, sometimes i used the rapala knot for lighter spectra). so far so good

4. 1st i spool the braided as tight as i can and then i go ta an open field where i tie the end the line to somthing very sturdy and i let the line and the spool it back as tight as possible, sometimes i lock the drag.

5. i don't use swivels for top shots, shock leaders.

6. palomar knot and tuna cord knot.

7. i use it sometimes for toothy fish.

8. be careful it easily cuts your skin.

9. i don't know about dacron since i've never used it but dyneema and spectra no.


google and youtube 2 of the best tools i've used. also fishing community sites especially ALANTANI.COM

hope this helps, good luck and tight lines.....

[elnath]

I'll take a shot at providing my $0.02, keep in mind that as most things in fishing there is no absolute objective right and wrong about working with braid, there are many opinions not all consistent that tend to be based more on what people have experience with vice scientific testing (although there is some of that, the best of which is available at: http://www.paulusjustfishing.com/


1) what is the best spool prep?  I have wrapped my spool core with surgical tape as I had read this is what charkbait does, is this the best practice?

I wax the spool well and then use the self sealing silicon tape, it doesn't stick to the spool, but is very high friction.

2) what is the best arbor knot for attaching spectra to the spool?  

I have switched over almost entirely to hollow core since it is very easy and fast to create loops and make line to line splices.  with hc you just make a loop and feed the line spool through it opposite the direction of wind and there you go.  With solid core I make a loop with a 10 turn surgeons loop knot and follow the same process.

3) what is the best knot / method for joining solid braid to larger diameter mono topshots?


If you are going after large aggressive fish, you really should look seriously at not using knots at all.  Loop-to-loop connections are what we almost exclusively goto on the BFT in the Northeast.  That's the bulk of the braid, then a loop to loop to a topshot (100-300 feet) and then loop to loop to the leader.  No knots in the field (you can tie, glue, test the final terminal knot at home).

4) I figured out first hand why you need to have spectra under pressure as you reel it on, the line bit into itself in slack areas and the entire spool was a loss.  What is the minimum pressure I need to wind this on?  Im talking about 70lb spectra.  Also does this change as diameter changes?

Generally use tension near what you intend to use as drag...usually 25-30% of line test.  Back off a few pounds when you spool.

5) is it ok to use the wind on type swivels to join my topshot?
See my answer to #3

6) how do u tie spectra to a lure?

I don't ever fish without a leader of some sort, but if I had to, I'd make a loop in the spectra, then tie a double palamor to the lure.

7) it seems like spectra would make a great leader, is it good leader material?
For the fishing we do in the NE, we usually want a leader that is abrasion resistant, spectra is the poster child for poor abrasion resistance.

8| are there special circustance spectra knots one needs to know?

Hollow core splices 

9) Dyneema, Spectra, Dacron.  What are the differences when it comes to the different braids?  Do they all require their own knots, or what?

See Paulus's website referenced in my intro, other good references are http://www.bhptackle.com/index.php and http://www.streamlineleaders.com/links/

[Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B]

practice - test, practice - test, practice - test, practice - test, practice - test, practice - test, and at the end of the day you'll have your own preferences ...tight lines!

[Normslanding]

I see a lot of good advice here. Two points to comment on:

  1. On the " middle of the road " statement. Keep it simple, and keep the knot profile as small as you personally can.

  2. As to your #5. Hollow loop to loop connection is 100% if done properly. It also goes thru the guides better than any knot.
     Hook knots can approaches 100% of the actual breaking strength. This then makes your Spectra the weak link. So it is possible
     to break the Spectra, loosing you costly line. Many of the common hook knots are in the 80% range. These knots will loose
     you a a cheep hook in lieu of costly Spectra.

[Gaujo]

Ok i am not sure what u meen by hollow loop to loop.  I have solid spectra line.

I found this video, but how do you tie the loops?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qd-8RhfZTY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[elnath]

Ok i am not sure what u meen by hollow loop to loop.  I have solid spectra line.

I found this video, but how do you tie the loops?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qd-8RhfZTY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

You have a couple of options.  One is to make a loop in the solid spectra using either a Bimini or an Aussie Plaited loophttp://www.bhptackle.com/pages.php?pageid=17, both are essentially 100% connections.  Another option is to splice on a short intermediate section of hollow-core to the solid and then make the loop in the hollow.
Both line to line and loop splices with hollow core are very easy and very strong and thin.

[Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B]

Ok i am not sure what u meen by hollow loop to loop.  I have solid spectra line.

You have a couple of options.  One is to make a loop in the solid spectra using either a Bimini or an Aussie Plaited loophttp://www.bhptackle.com/pages.php?pageid=17, both are essentially 100% connections. 

After making the loop use the yucatan to connect your top shot here is a link;

http://www.blackwaterfishingline.com/tech_tips_worm_knot.html

hope this helps....tight lines!

[SoCalAngler]

No real expert but I have tied spectra onto many, many reels and made connections, both tied solid and other methods for hollow spectra, used on customers reels when I managed a tackle shop here in Southern California. A lot of the gear we sold world wide and much of it was used for fishing cow sized tuna long range style.

1. I always used a flex wrap (surgical type tape) on all reels

2. I tie a San Diego knot but wrap the spectra twice around the spool before making the knot. Be careful which way you wrap the spectra on the spool because this knot will slip and with the two wraps will grip the spool tighter and tighter when more pressure is applied to the line never allowing it to slip on the spool tape or not.

3. Tie a Bimini in the spectra then with the doubled spectra tie a reverse Albright knot onto the mono. Truly hollow core is better because of the flexibility of connections and it can be tied like solid core if needed.

4. Really only 10-15 lbs of pressure is all that's needed to pack on the spectra rock hard. The spectra can only compress so much. Try it out, spool around 100 yards of line onto a spool at this pressure and lock down the reel to stupid tight. Then with a gloved hand wrap the spectra around it and pull harder than the drag pressure you will use and I will bet the spectra will not dig into itself. 10 lbs for 60 lb spectra and lighter 15 for 80-200 lb.

5. Swivels and "tuna rings" were used when spectra first came out but there are much better connections now. For spectra 60 lb and under to short mono or fluoro topshots I use a Bob Sands knot. Now if your going from spectra to mono to fluoro use a Seagaur knot to attach the last two. 80 and over Bimini to reverse Albright then if you go to fluoro (three lines again) you may want to start to think about crimping the last two.

6. I do not I always have some sort of topshot attached to my spectra.

7. Nope already stated it has bad aberration resistance.

8. Yes I listed three, Bimini Twist, reverse Albright and the Bob Sands and this is of course because you asked about solid spectra. I would use all three if connecting hollow too, with the same results as the solid but there better ways of connecting the hollow.

[LTM]

Hey SoCal,

Love your responses gentlemen.  SoCal what about his quiestion #9: 9) Dyneema, Spectra, Dacron.  What are the differences when it comes to the different braids?  Do they all require their own knots, or what?

Leo

[Bryan Young]

Hi Leo,

Not sure about dacron, but spectra is a trade name for Honeywell's gel-spun fiber and dyneema is a generic industry name for gel-spun fiber.  So, the knots for spectra and dyneema should be the same.

Bryan

[Robert Janssen]

Dacron is DuPont's trade name for polyester fiber.

Not the same stuff.

Not as slippery either, so modern braid knots need perhaps not always apply.

.

[SoCalAngler]

Hi Leo,

Not sure about dacron, but spectra is a trade name for Honeywell's gel-spun fiber and dyneema is a generic industry name for gel-spun fiber.  So, the knots for spectra and dyneema should be the same.

Bryan

Bryan has hit the nail on the head here but I would also add that spectra is also about the filliments which makes up a strand and the weave of the strands which make up the line. You have to follow thier guidelines to be able to use the term "spectra" amoung other things. If you use other guidelines then it is called something like dyneema or Spetrex or anything other than spectra.

[p-deverett]

I'm looking to increase line capacity on my Penn international 50(not the wide version). According to penn it holds 600 yards of 50lb mono, I want to spool around 500 metres of braid and around 400m of 50lb mono to give me plenty of capacity for marlin fishing. It will be used for trolling lures and live baits. Should I use 50lb braid and 50lb mono or should I step the braid strength up to 60lb or 65lb and if so why a different line strength?

Thanks
Peter