Problem with snelled circle hook

[smnaguwa]

I snelled a VMC straight eye 1/0 circle hook with 12# Mason hard mono for striper fishing in the Sacramento river. I had a hard strike and when I brought in my line, the mono leader had broke at the eye. It has happened twice. What's happening?

[Bryan Young]

When making your snell, you need to make sure your line is going away from the loop.  Sorry, I don't have a picture, but I attached a picture of a hook's eye.  Based on the attached picture, the line needs to be routed to the left.  That cut end can damage the line, which is probably what is happening.  And this applies most hooks.

[lawaia]

Was recently tying up some hooks and remembered this thread so took some photos to illustrate what Bryan is saying.  Note that I used dacron only to better show the snell.

The first two photos show what Bryan says NOT to do, with the snell going over the tag or cut off end of the hook shank.  The second pair show the snell going around the main shank of the hook, the preferred way.

It's pretty obvious why Bryan suspects that the leader broke if snelled as in the first two photos.

[Bryan Young]

Yup, the last 2 photos is the correct direction for the snell to be tied. I learned the hard way too, and the way the loops are formed, it's in the opposite of my comfort direction of smelling hooks.

[smnaguwa]

Thanks for all the info. Will re-tie my snelled hooks for next years striper run on the Sacramento river.

[bluefish69]

That is a new way to snell any hook to me. On straight eye hooks we just Snell the hook with no line passing through the eye. That is what I was taught many many moons ago. The only time we use the eye is for bent eye hooks. I just bought 100 - 4/0 imitation Gami Hooks yesterday [for tomorrows Back Sea Bass trip] tied just like I do.

[lawaia]

bluefish69 - If it works for you, go for it!  Maybe share some pics and how you tie your snell with the rest of us?

The snell shown in the pics I posted was tied the standard way as shown in knot tying guides and books, where the line goes through the eye then a loop is formed to wrap around the hook.  Out here we only snell c-hooks for use in baiting, mostly for bottomfishing, and some of my buddies and I actually use a simpler-to-tie snell, passed down and proven through the generations, which eliminates wrapping a loop over the hook but still goes through the eye of the hook.

[bluefish69]

Lawaia

I don't do pictures. I can take pictures all day but I can't get them out of the camera. SO I don't take pictures.

Our knots look alike but I was taught don't run the line through the straight eye. We use stiff leader material that would put the hook at a 45 - 90* angle to the leader. we also use 40 - 60# leader stiff material.

[bluefish69]

Sorry guys for going off last night. Pictures are a bad subject in this household. I know that I need a wire but after that I'm lost. Then I will ask for help.

Mean while I will stay with my Newell's of which I have 3 to do tomorrow.

[lawaia]

bluefish69 - No problem here whether or not you post pics.

We also use stiff leader, 60# Mason Hard Type and you're spot on about the hook being at an angle to the leader if snelled through the eye.

But if one thinks "outside the box" and reverses the conventional orientation of that angle (shown in the first photo) one can see that the angle of pull on the leader then becomes in line with the business end of a c-hook and may help set and keep the hook in the fish as it moves the pressure on the hook toward the bend of the hook where it's strongest.  We've only recently come to understand this so haven't yet built up enough of an experience base to say for sure whether this is better, but the logic looks good.

By contrast, the conventional direction snell through the hook eye (shown in the second photo) has the line somewhat rotating the hook away from the point.  We've caught many fish using this conventional orientation but we've had some unbutton too, and who knows if we weren't causing that ourselves.

Of course, the preceding only holds for c-hooks not j-hooks where the point is parallel to the shank. 

Bottom line is that if you've got a proven to you method that you're happy with, stick with it.

Aloha.

[Keta]

The International Pacific Halibut Commission studies of halibut hookups indicate #2 works better for longlines.  Use turned up eyes or don't put the line through the eye for a more inline rig.

[lawaia]

Thanks for the input, Lee!  Sure don't want to go re-inventing the wheel if someone else has already perfected it.  Not disputing what you said, but wanting to learn more about it; is there a link or something to that International Pacific Halibut Commission study?  We don't have 'buts out here so the study might be interesting reading?  Aloha.

[Ron Jones]

I thought that looked different. When the old man taught us to snell he made us cut the eyes off. Once we caught and landed a large enough fish like that he stopped making us do it. I didn't think many people snelled hooks anymore. Often, when I'm on a party boat especially, I'm told by those who know that I had to buy that leader because you can't tie hooks like that without a machine!

Ron

[saltydog]

I did alot of commercial longlining and the first photo is going to cause increased misses while if you try the method in photo #2 it will increase hookup ratios if you don't set the hook.A good way to test if your methods on circle hooks is correct is to tie your snell then making a collapsed c with your other hand thumb verses 4 fingers like the corner of a fishes mouth,then put circle hook and leader in the c and gently pull leader to see if hook rotates into position,if you have tied a hook correctly it should rotate when coming into the corner of the mouth into hookup position.Remember circle hooks are only effective against fish who wolf a bait down there throat as fast as they can,nibblers will eat your lunch.Now on the other hand if you are using live bait and a bridle you can either use a loop knot or just crimp the connection so that the bait has a petter range of motion especially when trolled.

[Bryan Young]

Still bait fishing, #2 is the way I was taught by my grand uncle.  Used circle (we called them tuna or tankichi back in the day) even down to small sizes. That style of snell that you use is an old, and can easily be tied in the dark.  Good to see that I'm not the only one who still uses that knot.