lubricants

[Congerslayer]

Thanks, definetly helpful,  will give wax a go, probably q good idea to scrub it down with some alcohol and maybe a bit of a soapy cloth before hand, especially the reels that have some old line residue still on them, on that note, is Reel Wash worth a try or just marketing? Without starting a huge discussion, if price is not an issie(I simply don'tservice enough reels to ever really notice  it) what would be a really good long lasting grease that doesn't stink to use on anything other than spool bearings?
Best Regards,  Marlon

Super lube general purpose. It's safe for incidental food contact and doesn't seem to have much of an odor. Haven't tasted it yet I'll leave that to you if you want. I have no joke 20 different types of grease or more and I still just use super lube and tsi on just about everything.

But that's just me.

For removing salt, you need warm water.  Additives don't help.  Dish soap, hot water, and an old toothbrush is good for removing crud, but detergents will degrade grease and oils, so you need to keep it off any lubricants that you are not going to remove.

Vinegar works for removing corrosion off of chrome plated brass parts on older reels.

They don't tell us what they use for ingredients in reel specific cleaners and lubricants because they wouldn't be able to get away with the high prices, but I expect that products from the big name reel companies will work OK. I don't buy them.

And another vote for Super Lube....  It does double duty, because it also works as a carbon fiber and cork drag washer grease. You can read through this thread to see who uses what and why. But like Jason, I have some of our more favored products collecting dust.  I only use Super Lube at this point.

-J

Ok, thanks again, I'll definitely get some super lube, about the use as drag grease, is it comparable to calls or just a decent option if you don't have any

[jurelometer]

Ok, thanks again, I'll definitely get some super lube, about the use as drag grease, is it comparable to calls or just a decent option if you don't have any

I like Super Lube better for drag grease too. Unlike Cal's, it  is a synthetic  and hasn't separated in the tub in a hot garage like my Cal's did.  Separation means that the oil is leaching out, so you end up with more thickener and less lubricant in your grease.

I fish a lot with cork drag fly reels, and cork will get real noisy when grease oxidizes and gets gummy, SuperLube outlasts Cal's by a long shot for me. And if I remember correctly, Super Lube has the higher dropping point temperature.  Both have a PTFE additive.

What Cal's mostly has going for it is a long track record of use at super high drag settings on big tuna and marlin.  You will find that the majority of saltwater folk here swear by Cal's, but that is mostly because it works pretty well, and they have not tried anything else. Which is a reasonable argument if you are risk adverse.

-J

[JasonGotaProblem]

Ladies and gentlemen opportunity has struck again! Does super lube separate or otherwise fail with age? Gonna find out.

A friend gave me this, looks pretty old. Gonna see what state the grease in the tube is in.

Wonder what the crust is that's visible in the package.

[foakes]

I use Yamalube blue for conventional salt water reels primarily (but I do not work on SW conventional reels hardly, anymore).  It is excellent and stays in place, but washes out easily when the next service rolls around again.

Cal's tan & Cal's purple are excellent for drags, and do mix well with the type of oil I use for gear/bearing applications.

But SuperLube has been my go-to on quality spinning reels for around 25 years.  Excellent on bearings, gearing, and also when LIGHTLY applied to drag discs.  It mixes well with my WRL191S synthetic oil when reducing the viscosity for spinners.

Just picked up another 5-pound tub last month, since I mostly work on quality vintage spinners at this point.

Before that, I would buy 1 pound tubs of "reel grease" from Southwestern Parts in Dallas, Texas.  I believe this was also SuperLube repackaged for Southwestern.

There are many fine greases and oils out there —- and I use 3 different brands, depending on the intended application.  SuperLube is at the top of my list for Spinning Reels.  It is terrific.

Best, Fred

[jurelometer]

Ladies and gentlemen opportunity has struck again! Does super lube separate or otherwise fail with age? Gonna find out.

A friend gave me this, looks pretty old. Gonna see what state the grease in the tube is in.

Wonder what the crust is that's visible in the package.

I think that separation is partially  (mostly?) a function of oxidation, so the containers have to be opened for a fair test.  The official shelf life for Super Lube is at least five years. They say that your nose is a good informal test instrument to see if it has gone bad.

Here is how to read the date code on your tube:

How do I read the date code?
Kano Laboratories LLC has adopted the Julian Code to conform with California and OTC regulations. The digits will represent the date as follows: YYDDD meaning, the first two digits represent the last two digits of the year of manufacture, and the remaining three digits represent the day of the year of manufacture, beginning with January first as day 001. For example, February 13, 2014 would be expressed as 14044 in Julian Code, since it is the 44th day of the year in 2014.

In addition to the Julian Code there is an "Alpha" and "2 additional digits" that identify the product's lot number for traceability purposes. The full code may read as 14044 B01 with the digits "01" referencing the lot number, and the "B" referencing the Month of manufacture.

-J

[boon]

You will find that the majority of saltwater folk here swear by Cal's, but that is mostly because it works pretty well, and they have not tried anything else. Which is a reasonable argument if you are risk adverse.

-J

There are "better" greases out there, for some definitions of the term. Depends on your version of "better". But we'll never find better alternatives if people don't experiment from time to time 

[Congerslayer]

Interesting, for me it's mostly high end spinners and high drag conventionals,  maybe I'll just go with Super lube for now, would prefer to keep it simple, plus I should find Cal's at a big game shop in most fishing destinations if I really think I need it. About the carnauba wax, is buying the flakes fine, or does it need to be a tub/block? Flakes would be around 30 bucks per kg, so like 12-15$/lb on Amazon and much esier to find in general than other forms. Guess you'd need to melt it to apply to the spool, right?

[Congerslayer]

For some tests I did actually use 200lb of drag(reel mostly empty, tested with a scale) and found a way to gain line at those drags, not saying I'll use that much under any remotely normal conditions, it's just to show how hard my reels get it, definetly got every reel I have pretty damn hot close to it's maximum drag and I only use carbon washers, but if carefully applied Super lube should be on par or better than Cal's I'll use it, I 'd imagine high end spinners actually have drags that get punished more in most cases than conventionals, so if it works there...

[Lunker Larry]

For some tests I did actually use 200lb of drag(reel mostly empty, tested with a scale) and found a way to gain line at those drags, not saying I'll use that much under any remotely normal conditions, it's just to show how hard my reels get it, definetly got every reel I have pretty damn hot close to it's maximum drag and I only use carbon washers, but if carefully applied Super lube should be on par or better than Cal's I'll use it, I 'd imagine high end spinners actually have drags that get punished more in most cases than conventionals, so if it works there...

I'm not a salt water guy but what's the temperature range for super lube? I think shimano is 300 and cals is 500 degrees. If you're getting smoking runs it would be good to know

[jurelometer]

For some tests I did actually use 200lb of drag(reel mostly empty, tested with a scale) and found a way to gain line at those drags, not saying I'll use that much under any remotely normal conditions, it's just to show how hard my reels get it, definetly got every reel I have pretty damn hot close to it's maximum drag and I only use carbon washers, but if carefully applied Super lube should be on par or better than Cal's I'll use it, I 'd imagine high end spinners actually have drags that get punished more in most cases than conventionals, so if it works there...

I'm not a salt water guy but what's the temperature range for super lube? I think shimano is 300 and cals is 500 degrees. If you're getting smoking runs it would be good to know

I have seen those numbers too, but haven't seen anything direct from the suppliers, not to mention standards based test results. 

Super Lube publishes a dropping point (the temperature that the grease liquifies) at greater than 500F using the official ASTM tests.

That is the advantage of buying grease  labeled by  the  actual grease manufacturer, and not some specialty fishing product where the originating product has been obscured and no ASTM test results are available.

You will know if your drag got past 500F, because at that temperature the stainless steel drag plate will re-temper itself, which leaves a tint on the surface of the metal.  Straw to brown color as it reaches 500F, and  then violet to blue as get toward/above 550F.

Avet managed to tint some drag plates by running dry drags and attaching the line to a truck moving faster than any fish would do under drag.  Haven't heard of it happening from an actual fish in real life, and am curious if anyone here has seen it.

The attribute that probably matters most is how quickly the grease goes bad from oxidation, as reels spend most of their time sitting around with the grease exposed to air.

Only one wild card: There is this claim of "high speed runout" causing the drag to decrease at higher speeds and not being temperature related.  PTFE friction does decrease with velocity, but I don't think the change is huge at the low velocities of a fish pulling line. This is easy enough to test by tying a scale to a trailer hitch and videotaping the load on the scale at various speeds, trying no lube, and a couple of different products. Strange that nobody has tried this considering how much time we spend on the topic.

I am comfortable with Super Lube because I have read the ASTM ratings, and because it has exhibited less oxidation in real life for me than the most popular product here (Cal's).  I fish heavy drag, but don't chase cow tuna, or even marlin any more.

There are folk here that hedge their bets by using Super Lube for everything except reels setup for high-drag with long runs.  They use Cal's for drag grease in this situation.  So you would not be alone in your strategy.

But if you want to know for sure what works best for drags in your load and speed ranges, it is not hard to test.  I would't bother with anything over 20MPH, 15 is probably more than enough.  We overestimate how fast these fish take line.

-J

[Congerslayer]

For some tests I did actually use 200lb of drag(reel mostly empty, tested with a scale) and found a way to gain line at those drags, not saying I'll use that much under any remotely normal conditions, it's just to show how hard my reels get it, definetly got every reel I have pretty damn hot close to it's maximum drag and I only use carbon washers, but if carefully applied Super lube should be on par or better than Cal's I'll use it, I 'd imagine high end spinners actually have drags that get punished more in most cases than conventionals, so if it works there...

I'm not a salt water guy but what's the temperature range for super lube? I think shimano is 300 and cals is 500 degrees. If you're getting smoking runs it would be good to know

Yeah,  that's why I so far thought Cal's was the way(at least over Shimano) to go but I'm open to new options

[Congerslayer]

For some tests I did actually use 200lb of drag(reel mostly empty, tested with a scale) and found a way to gain line at those drags, not saying I'll use that much under any remotely normal conditions, it's just to show how hard my reels get it, definetly got every reel I have pretty damn hot close to it's maximum drag and I only use carbon washers, but if carefully applied Super lube should be on par or better than Cal's I'll use it, I 'd imagine high end spinners actually have drags that get punished more in most cases than conventionals, so if it works there...

I'm not a salt water guy but what's the temperature range for super lube? I think shimano is 300 and cals is 500 degrees. If you're getting smoking runs it would be good to know

I have seen those numbers too, but haven't seen anything direct from the suppliers, not to mention standards based test results. 

Super Lube publishes a dropping point (the temperature that the grease liquifies) at greater than 500F using the official ASTM tests.

That is the advantage of buying grease  labeled by  the  actual grease manufacturer, and not some specialty fishing product where the originating product has been obscured and no ASTM test results are available.

You will know if your drag got past 500F, because at that temperature the stainless steel drag plate will re-temper itself, which leaves a tint on the surface of the metal.  Straw to brown color as it reaches 500F, and  then violet to blue as get toward/above 550F.

Avet managed to tint some drag plates by running dry drags and attaching the line to a truck moving faster than any fish would do under drag.  Haven't heard of it happening from an actual fish in real life, and am curious if anyone here has seen it.

The attribute that probably matters most is how quickly the grease goes bad from oxidation, as reels spend most of their time sitting around with the grease exposed to air.

Only one wild card: There is this claim of "high speed runout" causing the drag to decrease at higher speeds and not being temperature related.  PTFE friction does decrease with velocity, but I don't think the change is huge at the low velocities of a fish pulling line. This is easy enough to test by tying a scale to a trailer hitch and videotaping the load on the scale at various speeds, trying no lube, and a couple of different products. Strange that nobody has tried this considering how much time we spend on the topic.

I am comfortable with Super Lube because I have read the ASTM ratings, and because it has exhibited less oxidation in real life for me than the most popular product here (Cal's).  I fish heavy drag, but don't chase cow tuna, or even marlin any more.

There are folk here that hedge their bets by using Super Lube for everything except reels setup for high-drag with long runs.  They use Cal's for drag grease in this situation.  So you would not be alone in your strategy.

But if you want to know for sure what works best for drags in your load and speed ranges, it is not hard to test.  I would't bother with anything over 20MPH, 15 is probably more than enough.  We overestimate how fast these fish take line.

-J

That's definitely something to test for the future! As of now,  my Makaira SEA is already ready with Cal's so I'll leave it alone for now, maybe I'll just try some Super Lube on the HXW Raptor I got coming, it's a 3 speed MC, so a reel for the same or slightly heavier work than the biggest, strongest spinning reels, I'll definitely be sure to while the drags dry after greasing them. I can definitely see that reel getting emptied at full drag, which might exceed 100lb at low line levels, definetly will put heavier hollow core fir the first 30 yards on the spool so I don't loose as much strength if I need to the off, actually on my upcoming Brazil trip I'm only bringing that reel and a Makaira 50W SeA as well as a small mid priced jigging reel and some spinners, so the HXW is the biggest thing I'll grease for now, though once Avet releases the 3 speed TRX reels I'll probably get an 80w and another 50 as well, I love my Makaira but it heats up too fast at high drag, the TRX design should prevent that, or so I hope.

[Congerslayer]

Oh, and about the guys who use it,  what's with the carnauba wax,  will any kind do?

[jurelometer]

My apologies if you know this stuff, but I am going to respond just in case, and other folk might find it useful:

I can definitely see that reel getting emptied at full drag, which might exceed 100lb at low line levels, definitely will put heavier hollow core fir the first 30 yards on the spool so I don't loose as much strength if I need to the off,

Not sure what you are saying here, but if you are suggesting that you might want stronger line at the bottom of the spool because the drag increase as diameter decreases... it won't help much.  If the fish is taking line at 100 lbs of drag at the reel, it is pulling much harder on the hook side where the line will still be lighter. 

Before you feel anything at the reel, all the added friction from the water along and across (from any bowing) the line has to be overcome.  That is why we set the drag so far below the stated breaking strength.  The more line in the water, and the faster the fish is moving, the greater the friction.  I would suggest backing off on the drag when  breakoff is a risk as the spool diameter decreases.

I love my Makaira but it heats up too fast at high drag, the TRX design should prevent that, or so I hope.

The amount of heat generated is a function of the amount of kinetic energy converted.  A "better" drag will not "generate" less heat for the same amount of braking work.

Multiple drag surface pairs  decrease the amount of clamping force required for the same amount of friction, which generally makes for smoother operation, and in the case of lever drags, less axial load on the ball bearings, which is the main reason for doing multiple drag plates.  But the same amount of heat is going to show up.

If the drag surfaces are on separate sides of the spool, you are spreading out the convection, which should help the drag cool faster.  If the drag surfaces are right next to each other, I don't see how it helps much, especially for reels that cover the drag plates with a shield, unless the plates have enough mass to act as multiple heat sinks.

Hot drags are kind of scary, but if they are staying below 400F or so, I wonder if there really is any issue.

-J

[oc1]

Hot drags are kind of scary, but if they are staying below 400F or so, I wonder if there really is any issue.

The drag material will "glaze over" so it can't create enough friction.  I know what "glazed over" looks like, but don't know what is going on there.  Do they just sand themselves smooth?  Don't know.

Old Penns can get hot enough that water will sizzle and boil when poured over the star and sleeve. There are stories about using one of those old green coke bottles to pour water on the reel and then beat the drag star down with the butt of the bottle.  By that time, the star is too hot to touch so you have to use something.  I never heard of the metal or Bakelite warping or cracking from over-heating.