113HLW Binding Freespool.

[franky]

I am servicing a penn 4/0 reel.  When I reassembled everything, all seems to work well except the freespool when the reel is in casting mode.

To try and isolate the problem, I removed the bridge plate and pinion and left it out.  I reinstalled the sideplate only with the pinion yoke and eccentric jack.  Again, I put the reel in casting or freespool mode and spinned the spool...I got 3 seconds spin time.  However, when I engage the reel (take it out of casting mode), the spool seems to freespool for a very long time.  This tells me:

1.  It is not the bearings, they spin very well.
2.  It is not the pinion binding on the spool shaft...because I left the pinion out of the reel.
3.  Since the spool freespools very well in regular mode and stiffens up when I put it in casting mode....

The problem has to be either the pinion yoke or the eccentric Jack....maybe both.

Normally, I don't change out pinion yokes or eccentric jacks.  I have seen pinion yokes have a groove where the pinion comes into contact with the yoke...not in this case.  This pinion yoke looks okay.  The eccentric jack also looks okay.  

What should I do, is there something else that I am not seeing that could cause the lack of freespool while the reel is in casting mode?

I'm stumpted. 

[Keta]

Try restricting spool movement and turning the handle, sometimes the pinion hangs on the spool.

[franky]

Try restricting spool movement and turning the handle, sometimes the pinion hangs on the spool.

Yeah, when I had the reel fully assembled, I did notice that if it were in freespool mode and I grabbed onto the spool and turned the handle, it felt like the handle was stiff and binding.  Ordinarily in this case, the handle should freely spin very easily.

At that point, you would wonder if it was the pinion, yoke, or eccentric jack.

Since I left out the pinion while running the test, I narrowed it down to the yoke or the eccentric jack.

I'm beginning to wonder...while in regular mode, the yoke sits flush hence no interference or rubbing with the spool shaft.  However, when in casting mode, the fins on the eccentric jack are lifting the yoke at a slight angle that somewhere is touching the spool shaft.  Now, having the bridgeplate installed, it will help to realign the yoke and eccentric jack, but something still is touching or binding...hmmm..

[Dominick]

Try restricting spool movement and turning the handle, sometimes the pinion hangs on the spool.

Yeah, when I had the reel fully assembled, I did notice that if it were in freespool mode and I grabbed onto the spool and turned the handle, it felt like the handle was stiff and binding.  Ordinarily in this case, the handle should freely spin very easily.

At that point, you would wonder if it was the pinion, yoke, or eccentric jack.

Since I left out the pinion while running the test, I narrowed it down to the yoke or the eccentric jack.

I'm beginning to wonder...while in regular mode, the yoke sits flush hence no interference or rubbing with the spool shaft.  However, when in casting mode, the fins on the eccentric jack are lifting the yoke at a slight angle that somewhere is touching the spool shaft.  Now, having the bridgeplate installed, it will help to realign the yoke and eccentric jack, but something still is touching or binding...hmmm..

Franky:  if I understand you to mean the fins on the eccentric jack are lifting the yoke, the eccentric jack is in upside down.  The fins point down at the yoke.  Dominick

[franky]

Hello Dominick,

I did have to double look at it and reference it with Alan's pictures....it is in the correct order.

Anyway, I went to the store and bought a new eccentric jack and a pinion yoke just out of curiosity.  Bingo, for some reason, even if the existing ones did not have a groove or they looked okay...the part must have been a little off to cause the yoke to be misaligned.  With the new Yoke and Eccentric Jack, now the reel has a two and a half minute spin time.  Also, when I have the reel in cast mode and I hold the spool, the handle freely rotates very easily. 

Thanks folks for the replies. 

[Alto Mare]

I don't know what you did to get two and a half minutes, but whatever it is I would like to know it
I can barely get 45 seconds with my best one, and I have many to test

[franky]

I don't know what you did to get two and a half minutes, but whatever it is I would like to know it
I can barely get 45 seconds with my best one, and I have many to test

Hello Sal,

If I could only post a video.  The penn actually spins like a newell.  With that new pinion yoke and eccentric jack, new bearings with tsi, and a cleaned out pinion....its incredible.    One day if Brian Y. is in Hawaii, I can have him take a look at this and vouch for me.

[Alto Mare]

Franky, don't misunderstand my question. All I said was : if there is a way I would like to know about it.
I never had luck with those getting past 45 seconds.

[Bryan Young]

Sorry I came in late Franky.  I would have guessed the yoke. It's hard to tell when they go bad.  The yoke opening enlarges ever so slightly that the pinion gear doesn't sit well and you can see the result.  I've seen it in 2 older reels (Ocean City and Pfleuger).  That is why I would recommend hardened SS yokes like the ones that SmoothDrags carries.

Glad you got it figured out.  I would love to see how that spool spins for more than a minute, and I'll take you on that offer to meet up.  You are always scarce when I'm in town...I'm only saying...

[franky]

Oh no Sal,  No offense taken.    In fact, I have learned so much from you, especially when working with these Penn Reels.  I really enjoy reading your posts and always try to tap in when I see your name on a current thread listing....very informative, clear, and insightful.    Thanks a million for all the help. 

Just curious...Is your penn 113 reels only getting 45 seconds because you're servicing the reels with the intent and notion of fishing them on a boat? Or are you using them to cast from shore.  In Hawaii, we use these HLW113 to cast from shore, hence the tsi application.  Aside from that, no secrets, just a good cleaning and a very light shot of tsi and making sure that spool has a slight side-to-side play.  Oh, and even if the bearing was new from smoothdrag, I still dipped it in lighter fluid before putting the drop of tsi.

The lesson I learned was what a difference a new yoke can have on the performance of the reel and sometimes even if the yoke looks okay, it still can be a problem. 

I was also wondering though...when you change some parts in a reel, you sometimes have to change another adjacent part (ie. change pinion, change main gear. or change ARB, change roller clutch inner tube).  If a yoke goes bad, is it necessary to change the eccentric jack as well?   

@ Bryan... yes, I hope my schedule is a little more free the next time you come to Honolulu.     

     

[Alto Mare]

Very good point Franky most of my 113h's are used on the boat, but the ones that I did test have the open bearings, with the same treatment as yours. I must admit though, my bearings are not brand new, but they do feel good to me.
I need to come over so you can show me how to cast those babies, I miss Hawaii.

[Bryan Young]

I'm sure I can convince some guys for a casting session at a local park or beach.

Usually, only the yoke goes bad because it gets the most wear due to the constant spinning of the pinion bearing.  Other than that, nothing else needs to be changed, but maybe the eccentric may need a little adjusting if you hvae the bent, sticking out metal type.

[franky]

Cool...I would love to have a casting session .  Hey thanks folks for the replies.  Sal if youre on vacation in Hawaii let me know in advance...We can grab some good local plate lunches. Yum! 

[Alto Mare]

Great Franky. I'm a quick learner, maybe when we're done i could teach Bryan how it's done .
I can't wait to go back and visit, unfortunatlely I have kids in college at the moment.
The last time I was there I visited Lanai, Does that island still look the same, with only two resorts?
I loved staying there, but loved the people more.
Take care Franky.
Sal

[alantani]

i'd start by gutting the right side plate.  now assemble the frame, the side plates and the spool.  give it a spin and you will be looking at the effect that the bearings are having on freespool.  clean out these bearings and lube them with your lube of choice.  make a note of how well the spool spins.

no reassemble the right side plate to see what kind of effect the pinion gear has on free spool.  consider polishing out the inside of the pinion gear and the spool shaft and see how well it works.  make sure the pinion gear is free-floating first.  that means that the yoke is not messed up.  good luck!  alan