Senator 9/0 (vintage) gear sleeve

[number41]

I have an old Senator 9/0 that my grandfather left me and the new stainless gear sleeve I ordered is slightly different.  The old one has a felt washer (see below) and the new one is smooth.  Is the new sleeve supposed to sit metal-on-metal or is there a washer of some sort between.  I don't see anything in the schematic.  Any info would be great.

[Alto Mare]

Welcome number 41. your new sleeve does not need the felt washer, it will sit metal to metal. If the new sleeve happens to have too much play you might need to add a metal washer as I did here:

Enjoy your stay, any other questions....just ask.
Sal
Wow, sorry for the large picture, i can't shrink it.

[number41]

Thanks for your quick reply and thanks for the good info.  My grandfather's reel is the older style with the "accessible drag".  My next question is, do you think I should buy a new right side plate so I don't have to use a 50+ year old felt washer (part #'s 140 & 136) since they don't sell/make them anymore.  Again, your help/advice is really appreciated.

[Bryan Young]

You will not need a new right side plate.  The new HT-100 set of drag washers plus the metal drag washers are a direct fit.

[number41]

Thank you alto mare and Bryan for helping me out.  I need to make a correction though, it is a senator 6/0 not a 9/0.  I understand that I don't need a new side plate, but still am a little confused as to what part(s) go on after the HT-100.  The schematic shows part 18A and then 140 & 136.  Part 136 is a 40 year old felt washer.  Is there anything that takes it's place.  What would happen if I lost part 136?  They say they don't make/sell it anymore.  What parts would replace it?  Notice the pictures below:

With parts 136 & 140

Without the discontinued parts, it doesn't make any sense.  I've got to be missing something right?

Thanks again.

Brett

[George4741]

Brett,
I believe #136 is the collar and #140 is the felt washer.  As you may know, it's OK to use the collar without the felt washer.  If you lost the collar, then just add additional keyed washers to take up the excess space.  It'll be fine.

I think the purpose of the collar and felt washer were to keep out excess moisture.

George

[redsetta]

I think the purpose of the felt washer [was] to keep out excess moisture.

Quite right George - that and grit etc.
The 6500-9500SS had a similar felt seal washer that was eventually discontinued as it trapped more moisture and grit than it repelled.
I always remove 'em.
Cheers, Justin

[Ron Jones]

Wouldn't an extra Bellville take up the space without messing w/ the drag stack?

Ron

[Bryan Young]

You could also add another Beleville if you wish not particular difference as you need to just fill space.

[George4741]

Brett, I was reading your post again and realize we may not have answered your following question:

but still am a little confused as to what part(s) go on after the HT-100. 

Interesting thing about the 114, the metal washers are so thin that even when installing a 5-drag stack, all of the washers sit fairly deep in the main gear.  This requires some additional metal washers to take up the excess space.  The Penn Parts diagram can be confusing with it's various washers, and such.  Here's what I do, I place 3 keyed washers on top of the last HT100, then the pressure plate washer (sometimes called the collar) without the felt, then the spacer.  Then everything looks similar to your photo below:

Then I install the thick belleville washer, the star, another keyed washer, and finally the handle.  I like a keyed washer between the handle and star so the star won't rub against the handle.  I know, my way isn't the same as Penn recommends.  But, hey, this is America, and I can install the washers in any order I want.   Besides, it works for me.

You can order additional keyed washers from Penn Parts, they are part # 86-114L.  Oddly enough, they list a pressure plate washer and felt washer, part # 136-114 and 140-114, respectively.  They might be the same washers we thought were discontinued.

Your mileage could vary, and you may have to add or remove a keyed washer.  The important thing is filling up the extra space.
  George

[Bryan Young]

Looks great to me. 

[number41]

Awesome!  Thanks you guys very much for your help.  George, you in particular, answered exactly what was on my mind. 

Tight lines,

brett

[Tate]

Guys

I have a question here on a 115l (drag accessible from the outside with the felt washer and collar cap).  Is the advice the same to get rid of the felt washer for this one as the 114?  What should I replace it with?  The collar cap only seems to fit the felt washer and doesn't seem fit the Belleville, keyed washer, etc.  if I order the ht-100 drag set #114hsp from pennparts are the inside diameters larger?  I guess I should order extra parts to make sure.  The old felt washer is toast.  Any advice is appreciated.

After checking the schematic I have the old thick washer drag stack from the 40s.  If that helps.


Thx


Tate

[Tate]

Thought I would add a reference pic.  Here it is.  This looks like the 1940 schematics.  I had no idea this reel was that old if that is true.  Its in very good shape for that age.  Clearly it needs a drag upgrade.  All the other internals look good.



thx

Tate

[Shark Hunter]

That is indeed a 9/0 Tate. I sometimes reuse the felt washer on the outside if its in good shape. Otherwise I just roll without it. The 6/0 and the 9/0 use the same sleeve. Get you a kit from Scotts and save your old washers if you need to take up some slack in the stack. Here is what you need.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/6-114HSP.aspx
Order an additional 6-115 drag washer for under the main gear between the sleeve.
You could also contact Dawn at smoothdrag. She is on here. Hope this helps and Welcome!


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"